Can a Council take over a tree stand?

[David CO]

True. The council is not going to want to run a Christmas tree stand, but that is not the situation the OP describes.

 

The OP describes a situation in which a fundraiser is taken from a smaller unit (Troop Z) and given to a larger unit (Troop X), with some revenue sharing involved. I could very easily see this happening.

 

I disagree with CalicoPenn in regard to picketing the Christmas tree stand.  No matter how mean and unfair I might feel the situation is, I would not picket a fundraiser run by another unit (Troop X).

Edited December 11, 2016 by David CO

[CalicoPenn]

So if your unit was running a successful Christmas Tree Sale for a number of years and some yahoo at the district level decided another Troop should do it instead, you would be ok with it?  What are you, some kind of communist? (  )

 

If another unit decided to start their own tree sale independently, I wouldn't picket it - but if my unit's tree sale was hijacked and stolen, not only would I picket it, I'd make sure it was front page news.

[David CO]

That would not be the sort of front page news that would reflect well on my unit or my Chartered Organization.  No, I would not picket another unit's fundraiser.  Instead, I would develop a fundraiser that the yahoos at district cannot hijack.

 

Be Prepared.

Edited December 11, 2016 by David CO

[fred johnson]

A few comments.  

• A district can't hold money and is the same non-profit organization as the council.  Any funds raised by a district go directly to the council.
   
• BSA's "unit money earning application" is usually ignored.  In my 13+ years, I've never seen one filled out.  Personally, it sort of offends me.  BSA tells us we can't wear uniform when doing such non-profits.  We can't use BSA good will to support sales.  BSA says sales must be done on their own merit.  As such, I really don't see what the council would be approving as the only thing the BSA council approves is their own non-involvement.  

• Districts should not be choosing between troops except maybe to staff a district event.  And districts don't run council fundraisers.  And if it was a council fundraiser, one troop running it would not be enough motivation for the boys and adults to keep it running.  It would die.  So from what I understand, we are really talking about giving a unit fundraiser from one troop to another troop.  

• Hypothetical ... If Troop X started running the tree stand, would Troop X share profits with Troop Z?  I am assuming no.  Why would Troop Z let it happen then ?

• Essentially ... A tree stand that Troop Z runs is really run by Troop Z's charter organization.  It's theirs and the money raised is raised under Troop Z non-profit status.  The property use agreement (lease, rental, whatever) is with the Troop Z non-profit.  The money might be obviously targeted directly for Troop Z, but it's still the non-profit org. .... As such, the district (a different non-profit business) can't pick and choose who will financially benefit in different non-profit orgs and can't choose who will run it between different non-profits. 

IMHO, letting a district get involved in a unit fundraiser decision puts things at risk.  Keep the unit fundraiser at the unit level and just do it.  Tell the district people to politely focus on their district activities.  

[scoutldr]

Well, I got this far thinking "tree stand" had to do with deer hunting.

[krikkitbot]

Thank you for all of the input. It's not actually a tree stand. I was using that as an example in order to maintain some degree of anonymity until we have a chance to meet with the district executive (or whatever his new title is). 

[CalicoPenn]

Is your COR or the head of your sponsoring organization aware of this request and meeting?  If not, make sure they get up to speed - and then invite them to the meeting - where, when they DE (or whatever his title is) tells you that you need to give your fundraiser to another unit, the IH or COR politely tells him to go pound sand and to never, ever interfere with the operations of the unit again.

 

The only way this guy can take your fundraiser is if you let him - and you just don't let him - if he insists, you go over his head to his boss - the Scout Executive, by e-mail, with a copy to the Council President.

[RichardB]

Well, I got this far thinking "tree stand" had to do with deer hunting.

 

I was confused as well and since hunting is not part of the Boy Scout program I was really confused.    Some councils do have organized hunting and sell trespass licenses on their properties.   

[RichardB]

For those that ignore the program, policies, etc. of the BSA in relation to fundraising.    I'd point you to the Scouter Code of Conduct, specifically 5A.   http://www.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/Scouter_Code_of_Conduct.pdf 

[The Blancmange]

While it may be possible for a council to "take over" a fundraiser as described, they really ought to think about the message this sends and the precedent it sets.   Some other things to point out to someone considering this:

 

1.) A unit does not have to participate in council-sponsored popcorn sales;

2.) A unit does not have to allow a council representative to give a Friends of Scouting presentation;

3.) A unit does not have to patronize a council-owned camp.  

 

Is that really the kind of atmosphere they want to promote?

Edited December 14, 2016 by The Blancmange

[frankpalazzi]

A council or a district "taking over" a fundraiser?  I had to laugh.

 

There would be a few choice words exchanged if they even attempted or suggested doing this to my unit. Sailors would blush, trust me.

 

I can only imagine seeing our IH and a few dozen members of our CO, battle-hardened veterans, showing up on the scene of this situation.

 

Our fundraising activities are no one's business except ours and the COs.  We don't file a fundraising application because of the questions on it.  Those questions are no one's  business. Period.  We raise what we need, and spend what we raise.  The CO owns the troop and the funds, and the CO is the only entity we share our financial information with.  Often times, they are our best customers! 

 

The district and council get their fair share from us through registrations, rechartering, summer camp fees, off-season camp fees, district camporees and Klondike,  and FOS contributions.  They are not going to meddle in our independent fundraising efforts.

Edited December 14, 2016 by frankpalazzi

[oldisnewagain1]

While it may be possible for a council to "take over" a fundraiser as described, they really ought to think about the message this sends and the precedent it sets.   Some other things to point out to someone considering this:

 

1.) A unit does not have to participate in council-sponsored popcorn sales;

2.) A unit does not have to allow a council representative to give a Friends of Scouting presentation;

3.) A unit does not have to patronize a council-owned camp.  

 

Is that really the kind of atmosphere they want to promote?

 

4. A unit does not have to participate in JTE

5. A unit does not have to participate in District/Council events

[The Latin Scot]

While it may be possible for a council to "take over" a fundraiser as described ...

But that's just the thing - it isn't possible. At least, not without the consent of the Unit, which hopefully they would never offer. They don't have the authority to do so, and I have read the entirety of the BSA policies and guidelines looking for such a caveat. As far as I can find, there isn't one, so keep your fund-raiser, and don't give an inch if your district or council tries to force your hand. Official policy is on your side.

[clemlaw]

I was confused as well and since hunting is not part of the Boy Scout program I was really confused.    Some councils do have organized hunting and sell trespass licenses on their properties.   

 

I thought it was something like flagpole sitting.  Scouts sit in the tree stand for X hours in exchange for pledges.  I thought maybe the Scout Executive was demanding to sit there instead of the scouts.  :-)

[Stosh]

Hunting can be part of the Venturing program.