SM pulls rank advancement after successful BOR

[Col. Flagg]

If the scout had not already taken the matter to council, I would agree with you.  

 

Not sure why that changes anything. The handbook is the official record. The Scout should know if the BOR section was signed off by his troop, his mom, his brother, himself, etc. So, assuming he's telling the truth, you take the Scout at his word unless you have something else to go on.

 

I would not want to be in a situation where I immediately assume one person is lying over the other. If council gets involved and says "stop everything", that's another matter entirely.

[Stosh]

If the rank was awarded, was it registered with the Council before it was revoked?  If so the council should have a record of it.

[CaliGirl]

@ Stosh - The rank was revoked after the BOR as punishment.  The Troop had not submitted the advancement papers to the Council.

 

The rank has now been awarded after several months, with the original BOR date.  Council examined the Scout's book and noted the multiple sign offs (in different handwriting and ink colors!).  They also had a discussion with the Scout.

 

In short, representatives of the Troop lied to cover the actions of their Scoutmaster, who revoked the rank.  Rather than admit his wrongdoing, a cover story was crafted.  Very, very sad.....

[EmberMike]

@ Stosh - The rank was revoked after the BOR as punishment.  The Troop had not submitted the advancement papers to the Council.

 

The rank has now been awarded after several months, with the original BOR date.  Council examined the Scout's book and noted the multiple sign offs (in different handwriting and ink colors!).  They also had a discussion with the Scout.

 

In short, representatives of the Troop lied to cover the actions of their Scoutmaster, who revoked the rank.  Rather than admit his wrongdoing, a cover story was crafted.  Very, very sad.....

 

 

Amazing. So they effectively accused a boy of forging signatures to cover for a SM who was going outside of BSA policy and pulling ranks. Unreal.

 

Seems best that your son is out of that troop, as the unusual leadership actions are clearly not limited to just the SM. And glad to hear that the rank was finally recognized. 

 

I still wonder what their end-game was, if they were actually willing to seriously damage or derail this boy's scouting career with allegations of forgery just to protect a corrupt SM. Now there's probably a stigma of distrust throughout that entire troop. If I were a parent in that troop and knew about what was going on, we'd be looking for a new troop asap. These leaders might have doomed their entire unit if scouts and parents do scatter after this. 

[Col. Flagg]

I still wonder what their end-game was, if they were actually willing to seriously damage or derail this boy's scouting career with allegations of forgery just to protect a corrupt SM. Now there's probably a stigma of distrust throughout that entire troop. If I were a parent in that troop and knew about what was going on, we'd be looking for a new troop asap. These leaders might have doomed their entire unit if scouts and parents do scatter after this. 

 

I'd like to think most of use would never have put our son in such a troop given that may of us -- those who have been in Scouting a long time -- know what to look for. Any unit with a demerit program would have been off my list immediately. Heck, I might have reported them to Council had I known in advance. And no offense meant to @@CaliGirl for not knowing earlier or not asking. That's something no one expects to find in Scouting and may not even be too widely known. Us Scouting geeks on this forum may have missed it too, but I'd like to think we'd have found it early. Well done to @@CaliGirl for getting her son out.

[CaliGirl]

@@Col. Flagg - The demerit program was not in place when he joined the Troop.  Glad my son has moved on!

[Col. Flagg]

@@Col. Flagg - The demerit program was not in place when he joined the Troop.  Glad my son has moved on!

 

Gotcha. Thanks!. That's interesting the leaders felt the need to put it in place. If there's a discipline or attendance problem there are other ways adults can address those issues. Glad he's moved on and found another troop. Hope he has better experiences.

[perdidochas]

@@David CO you're right. We have no way of knowing who is telling the truth since are not involved in the primary incident. So I put myself in the new SM's shoes:

• I welcome the new Scout warmly in to the troop.
• I have the meeting with him that's been suggested above.
• We review his records and his handbook. I ask him about his BOR. Who was there? Who signed? His response and mannerisms should tell me if there's any fire where we think there's smoke. If not, I take the book at face value, trust the Scout and award the rank.
• If the Scout's answer is suspicious, then we hold a BOR for him so he can close our the rank. Then we award the rank.

Regardless of whether or not the Scout knows who signed, why would we suspect the Scout over the Scouter? I think we've all seen cases where both parties could be equally liable to not tell the truth. So let's trust BOTH parties. If the BOR is in contention just have another BOR and award the rank. Done!

 

I like the above. As an ASM, I'd probably talk about knots and other First Class stuff with him. 

[EmberMike]

That's interesting the leaders felt the need to put it in place. If there's a discipline or attendance problem there are other ways adults can address those issues. 

 

 

My guess is that the dysfunctional leadership of that troop felt the need to address a perceived problem with the scouts by creating their demerit system, when the real problem was likely a leadership deficiency all along. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by EmberMike

[Col. Flagg]

My guess is that the dysfunctional leadership of that troop felt the need to address a perceived problem with the scouts by creating their demerit system, when the real problem was likely a leadership deficiency all along. 

 

Yup, sounds like it. On it's face it sounds like the SM is trying to up the attendance rate by putting in this demerit system. If that's why, your're exactly right @@EmberMike, that's leadership devoid of any ideas of how to spark attendance and build excitement around the program. Too lazy to work with the PLC to develop energizing programs.

[David CO]

My guess is that the dysfunctional leadership of that troop felt the need to address a perceived problem with the scouts by creating their demerit system, when the real problem was likely a leadership deficiency all along. 

 

As you say, that is just a guess.  I would guess something entirely different.  But that would just be a guess, too.

[David CO]

Yup, sounds like it. On it's face it sounds like the SM is trying to up the attendance rate by putting in this demerit system. If that's why, your're exactly right @@EmberMike, that's leadership devoid of any ideas of how to spark attendance and build excitement around the program. Too lazy to work with the PLC to develop energizing programs.

 

That is all speculation as well.

[Col. Flagg]

That is all speculation as well.

 

True, but informed speculation. I am trusting that the Scout is telling the truth. We are supposed to take each other on our word, right? 

 

Otherwise, how do I know you are "David" or you know that I am really a "Colonel"?   

[EmberMike]

As you say, that is just a guess.  I would guess something entirely different.  But that would just be a guess, too.

 

 

It's less of a guess knowing that local council investigated and confirmed rank, which in turn confirms a lot of what has been said throughout this discussion.

[Stosh]

Even with all the professional ministry and working with youth all my life, especially Scouts, I had an interesting epiphany just recently.  Since retiring I have upped my volunteerism and have taken on working with the American Red Cross.  My first national deployment I was lead on a crew doing Bulk Distribution, which means I drove a truck out into the neighborhoods and handed out food, water, supplies, clean up kits, and things of this sort.  When we handed out stuff we could tell there were many items going out that were going to be showing up on craigslist and Ebay by that evening.  But we were told to never question it, just hand it out, no questions asked. 

 

I was in one neighborhood and I handed out a full compliment of supplies to a young boy about 15 years old.  Within a few minutes he was back asking for another load.  I had to give it to him by ARC policy.  Sure enough he came back a third time, but this time I watched him.  He took it over to a house nearby and knocked on the door.  An elderly woman answered and he pointed to the stuff he had just put on her porch.  He was back again, this time going to another house, and back for more.  By the time I had emptied my truck I was on cloud nine.  If I had but one boy like this in my troop I'd be in heaven.  When I got back in my cab to drive back to the warehouse, a terrifying thought ran through my head.  "What if I had said no?"  I might be an old-fashioned stogie in my thinking and opinions cemented into place, but like W.C.Boyce's experience in London, I may never know his name, but it changed my way of thinking forever.  No is such a devastatingly destructive word.