SM pulls rank advancement after successful BOR

[fred johnson]

Gumbymaster answered while I was typing.  He's exactly right.  

 

My only comment in addition to his is move on as fast as possible.  Time in scouting is actually very short.  Move on so that your son can get back to positive experiences.  I'd be frustrated too, but move on and leave the old troop in the past.

 

The signatures in the books should be enough but work with the troop to find a resolution.  They will get to know you and your son quickly.  Focus on the future great experiences.

Edited January 13, 2017 by fred johnson

[Tampa Turtle]

Agree with the two previous.

 

"If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet."  Matthew 10:14(NIV) 

There is a world of Troops out there and there is no "I am not a jerk" test for us leaders. Move on.

[NJCubScouter]

Cali Girl:

 

Did your son join a new troop?

 

Is the new troop declining to submit an advancement report for your son for First Class because the BOR members in the old troop deny the BOR took place, even though they signed the handbook?  (That's what we lawyers call a compound question, so if any part of that is incorrect, please say so.)

 

Has your son asked the new troop to do a BOR for First Class, and what was the response?  (He should not have to do that, but it might be the easiest way out of this mess.)

 

Has this issue been presented to council, and what was their response?  (I seem to recall some council involvement from one of the past posts, but I don't remember the details.)

[CaliGirl]

The Council has been actively involved, and the members whom I have spoken to have seemed truly sympathetic. They hold the opinion that he earned the rank and would like the new Troop to submit the paperwork.  However, I am getting the sense that the new Troop wants nothing to do with this, and I cannot say that I blame them.  

[krikkitbot]

How long have you been at the new troop now? Are all of the requirements signed off? Is waiting a month or two more going to prevent your son from reaching Eagle?

 

If it were me, I would say wait a couple of months, at least, in the new troop. Give the Scoutmaster and the Members of the Committee get to know your son a little, and then have a new SM conference and a new BOR. 

 

That's what I would suggest a youth who transferred to my unit under those circumstances. In the meantime, make sure the new scout is fully integrated into the troop. Signed up for all activities and especially all service projects. Show he is a first class scout (not just First Class rank ). The couple of extra months will give him more experience than butting his head at the other troop would. 

 

Unless he is 16.5 there is no rush to get First Class. Is he 16.5?

[CaliGirl]

@ krikkitbot - No, he is not that old.  Time is not a concern right now.  He is happy in the new Troop.  If they want another SM conference and BOR for this rank he will do it.

[Eagle94-A1]

My thoughts.

 

1) While the Advancement Report is needed for council records, THE BOY SCOUT HANDBOOK WITH THE SIGNATURE IS THE OFFICIAL RECORD THAT ALL OTHER RECORDS (ADVANCEMENT REPORTS, SCOUTNET, ETC) MUST BE BASED UPON! (Caps, bold, and underlining are emphasis, not shouting. OK maybe a little because the original troop is messed up)

 

2)  I can understand the new troop not wanting to sign off. None of their committee members conducted the BOR. I know I would feel signing.

 

3) My suggestion would be to submit the Advancement Report with a copy of the signed book with "See Attached" on the signature spot.

 

In the two cases I had to deal with regarding council having incorrect or incomplete records, in both cases the Boy Scout Hand Book with the signatures were used to correct the records or reconstruct them.

[TAHAWK]

If you have a signed Blue Card and the SM decides the MB in question cannot have been earned in fact, the MB is not listed on the advancement report and has not been earned.  Guide to Advancement. 7.0.4.7

 

 

I would argue that the Advancement report merely reports advancement that has taken place and provides z council-level record of that advancement.  It is also a precondition for purchasing the insignia of the rank earned.

 

To: Council Advancement Committee

 

I certify that the following record of advancement is correct and that it meets the standards and requirements of the Boy Scouts of America, and that merit badge counselors are registered adult members of the BSA.

 

____________________     ___________________________  

           Signed                                          Title

 

For Boards of Review: two additional signatures are required, plus the date the board of review was held.

Edited January 14, 2017 by TAHAWK

[NJCubScouter]

I somewhat dislike doing this, but the best thing I can do is quote myself from the second page of this thread, almost two months ago.

 

If I were the Scout in question, I would want to go into the new troop with the First Class rank having been submitted to council, which is what he needs for the rank to be officially recognized.  The key piece of paper (either actual paper or electronically submitted) is the advancement report, which is supposed to be submitted to council by the Advancement Coordinator (or at least with his/her approval, if Internet Advancement is used and someone else actually does the submitting.)   It is supposed to be done whenever someone completes a BOR or the troop receives a completed merit badge card (or however it is done in your council.)  It is my guess, based on what you are saying, that after the BOR your SM told the Advancement Coordinator to leave your son's name off the advancement report.  This is completely improper.  If your Advancement Coordinator or Committee Chair will not help you with this, maybe the council will accept your son's signed book and do its own advancement report since your son is switching troops.  (I'm not sure if that's possible, it's just a thought.)  Otherwise he will be presenting this issue of the missing advancement report to his new troop, which is probably not the best way in the world to go into a new troop.

 

It is a real shame that none of various adults involved is willing to cut through the bureaucracy for your son, who has now been waiting for several months after a successful BOR for someone to officially recognize that he is First Class.  I am not surprised that the new troop was somewhat hesitant when presented with a signed book from a troop that has declined to submit an advancement report, and with the BOR members from the old troop apparently willing to lie about this, the new troop does not want to deal with it.  What does surprise me a bit is that the council will not just do the advancement report itself, whether under the "appeal procedure" or some other means.

 

I guess the answer now is to just do a new BOR with the new troop, although your son really shouldn't have to do that.

Edited January 16, 2017 by NJCubScouter

[Stosh]

Once one gets into the minutia of the rules and regulations and dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's, it is always surprising that the ones trying to be helped are the ones being hurt.  The old AND THE NEW troop in this case have lost sight of the main objective, the boy's advancement success.  There's going to be NO COH that is going to heal the wounds caused by these arrogant adults in BOTH troops.

[CaliGirl]

Stosh, I cannot possibly convey the amount of hurt this has caused.  The Scouting community is small.  My son has been verbally abused in school by boys from the old Troop. Now I fear his reputation in the new Troop has been tarnished.  He is 'that boy' whose parents went to Council.  Thankfully we have spared him the details of all the lies told.  He does not need to know the extent that adults will go to in order to protect themselves.

Edited January 16, 2017 by CaliGirl

[Stosh]

BSA is so picky about it's anal policies and then turns around and allows "stuff" like this to happen to a scout?  Sorry, but blame for this goes all the way up to the SE of that council.  Get out from behind your desk, stop the political fundraising schmoozing and help this boy out!!!! 

 

BSA is all in a tizzy about being socially correct, how's about doing something other than bullying one's own members.

 

 

Oh, and by the way, I think it's written in the BSA policy material somewhere, at least I saw it someplace once.  Something about "HELPNG OTHER PEOPLE AT ALL TIMES!"  That applies to more than just the boys.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Stosh

[TAHAWK]

What Council?

[fred johnson]

.... The old AND THE NEW troop in this case have lost sight of the main objective, the boy's advancement success.  There's going to be NO COH that is going to heal the wounds caused by these arrogant adults in BOTH troops.

 

I agree fully.  We need to learn the rules so that we can learn how to be flexible.  

 

I have a very very wise adult leader in our troop that measures situations like this with "How would that be of any use?"  In this situation, nothing is served by not recognizing the BOR that he completed.  If anything, it creates negatives that could serve to end his scouting experience.  IMHO, it's better to cut this experience as short as possible and move toward positives.

[Deaf Scouter]

None of you bring up the discussion of the Troop Committee.  There are plenty of troops that use codes of conduct contracts but they have clear cut rules of what the punishment would be like being asked to leave a campout.  None of them have demerits of rank stripping.  Your troop committee can look at this issue and come up with a solution if you give them examples of the troop demerits the SM/ASM has done and examples of how other troops handle conduct by having spelled out codes of conduct contracts.  Read up on Scouting's purpose aims and means along with youth protection and sweet 16 rules.