SM pulls rank advancement after successful BOR

[CaliGirl]

His 7+ years includes Cub Scouts.  Thankfully this was not a BOR for Eagle!  I am looking at his handbook right now and yes, it was signed off.  

[T2Eagle]

My advice in situations like this is find another troop.  Actions this far outside the norm almost never change without a wholesale change in the leadership of the troop.

 

I am curious what the procedure is for regaining the rank that was stripped.  What do you have to do, earn more merit badges that somehow don't count towards the next rank?  More time in a leadership position?  Once you go this far outside the rules it's like driving on the sidealk, you just keep hitting more and more stuf because you're not on the road at all anymore.

[NJCubScouter]

His 7+ years includes Cub Scouts.  Thankfully this was not a BOR for Eagle!  I am looking at his handbook right now and yes, it was signed off.

Ok, good, because otherwise the math wasn't looking very good. So he's around 14, give or take a year?

 

What rank was it for?  

[CaliGirl]

@@T2Eagle My understanding is that he had to wait until the next COH.  However, the way things have been operating in this Troop I am sure there would have been even more obstacles put in his way.  We are changing Units.  I attended a Troop Committee meeting at the new Troop and it has further highlighted to me the old Troop's dysfunction.

[krypton_son]

@@krypton_son To be fair, I think this SM is a good man who perhaps has been at it too long.  Recently an ASM criticized something to the SM and his response was "If you want my job you can have it right now."  I know how difficult it is to get and retain good volunteers.  Unfortunately there is no waiting list for SM here so we have chosen to move on.

 

You're 100% right CaliGirl, it's very stressful, and it can be a very demanding and thankless position.  Having said that though, abusing that position is a big deal, especially when it can affect the boys in such negative ways.

[CaliGirl]

@@NJCubScouter - it was for First Class.

[krikkitbot]

Having just read another thread about a scout making a huge mistake while at summer camp makes me wonder what this scout did in order to be sent home from a camping trip. 

 

I would not pull the rank. The guide to advancement is pretty clear on this. Once the requirements are signed, they are done. Nothing can be added to the requirements. However, if there was some egregious transgression, I may hold off on some of the signatures for the next rank until the behavior was corrected.  

[NJCubScouter]

If I were the Scout in question, I would want to go into the new troop with the First Class rank having been submitted to council, which is what he needs for the rank to be officially recognized.  The key piece of paper (either actual paper or electronically submitted) is the advancement report, which is supposed to be submitted to council by the Advancement Coordinator (or at least with his/her approval, if Internet Advancement is used and someone else actually does the submitting.)   It is supposed to be done whenever someone completes a BOR or the troop receives a completed merit badge card (or however it is done in your council.)  It is my guess, based on what you are saying, that after the BOR your SM told the Advancement Coordinator to leave your son's name off the advancement report.  This is completely improper.  If your Advancement Coordinator or Committee Chair will not help you with this, maybe the council will accept your son's signed book and do its own advancement report since your son is switching troops.  (I'm not sure if that's possible, it's just a thought.)  Otherwise he will be presenting this issue of the missing advancement report to his new troop, which is probably not the best way in the world to go into a new troop.

[CaliGirl]

@@krikkitbot - My son was asked his opinion on a camping related matter - that is all I can say without going into detail.  One of the ASMs could not believe he was being asked to leave over it.

 

@@NJCubScouter - The last thing I want is for the new Troop to be involved.  This is absolutely not their problem. 

[Stosh]

Having just read another thread about a scout making a huge mistake while at summer camp makes me wonder what this scout did in order to be sent home from a camping trip. 

 

I would not pull the rank. The guide to advancement is pretty clear on this. Once the requirements are signed, they are done. Nothing can be added to the requirements. However, if there was some egregious transgression, I may hold off on some of the signatures for the next rank until the behavior was corrected.  

 

And how is this not adding to the advancement requirements of the next rank? 

 

If I were the Scout in question, I would want to go into the new troop with the First Class rank having been submitted to council, which is what he needs for the rank to be officially recognized.  The key piece of paper (either actual paper or electronically submitted) is the advancement report, which is supposed to be submitted to council by the Advancement Coordinator (or at least with his/her approval, if Internet Advancement is used and someone else actually does the submitting.)   It is supposed to be done whenever someone completes a BOR or the troop receives a completed merit badge card (or however it is done in your council.)  It is my guess, based on what you are saying, that after the BOR your SM told the Advancement Coordinator to leave your son's name off the advancement report.  This is completely improper.  If your Advancement Coordinator or Committee Chair will not help you with this, maybe the council will accept your son's signed book and do its own advancement report since your son is switching troops.  (I'm not sure if that's possible, it's just a thought.)  Otherwise he will be presenting this issue of the missing advancement report to his new troop, which is probably not the best way in the world to go into a new troop.

 

In an ugly situation, there is no "best way" to going about handling it.  Simply go to the new troop, show him the boy's BSHB and have another COH and move on.  The BSHB is the only official record and if he has signatures and dates, it should be enough.  Otherwise it would do, for the new SM to just do a quick review of the requirements and if satisfied, he/she can do a quick SMC, and another BOR/COH and move on.  An explanation as to why the boy is transitioning to another troop at the FC level without any obvious non-scout reason should suffice with an explanation as to why the boy is leaving the previous troop.

[qwazse]

I agree with @@Stosh, the handbook says it all.

 

If there's a doubt -- sometimes there is -- you need to allow for the notion that because of the goings-on in the troop, your son may not have mastered the skills the way he should have. It's a matter of the new SM contacting the old one. We do talk to one another from time to time. It doesn't take much to tell if a boy is "all that", and a caring SM will push the paperwork through to make sure his transfer scout is recognized by council to be at the appropriate rank on the appropriate date.

 

It's sad to see an SM get all heavy-handed. It doesn't always end badly. I've seen them wise up and correct their course after a few boys transfer out.

[David CO]

Having just read another thread about a scout making a huge mistake while at summer camp makes me wonder what this scout did in order to be sent home from a camping trip. 

 

I would not pull the rank. The guide to advancement is pretty clear on this. Once the requirements are signed, they are done. Nothing can be added to the requirements. However, if there was some egregious transgression, I may hold off on some of the signatures for the next rank until the behavior was corrected.  

 

I agree.  Once the requirements are signed, they are done.

 

The COH is a different matter.  If a boy were to commit a serious act of misbehavior between his BOR and COH, I might consider not having him honored at a COH.  Just quietly give him his patch.  If I was really angry, I might mail it to him, but I wouldn't withhold a rank that has already been earned.

[Oldscout448]

@@krikkitbot - My son was asked his opinion on a camping related matter - that is all I can say without going into detail.  One of the ASMs could not believe he was being asked to leave over it.

 

@@NJCubScouter - The last thing I want is for the new Troop to be involved.  This is absolutely not their problem. 

Wait, he was asked to leave?  just the campout? or the troop?

Edited November 21, 2016 by Oldscout448

[David CO]

Yeah, that should never happen.  Scouts cannot be "stripped" of their rank, that's not something that as far as I know is allowed in Scouting (with the possible exception of a revocation of Eagle Scout rank in some rare instances).  I would have that Scoutmaster out the door faster than he could realize.

 

I agree with you in that a scout cannot be "stripped" of his rank.

 

The COR/IH should definitely have a sit down with this Scoutmaster.  I don't agree with you, however, on removing the Scoutmaster.  None of the actions described in the OP merits that.

[NJCubScouter]

In an ugly situation, there is no "best way" to going about handling it.  Simply go to the new troop, show him the boy's BSHB and have another COH and move on.  The BSHB is the only official record and if he has signatures and dates, it should be enough.  Otherwise it would do, for the new SM to just do a quick review of the requirements and if satisfied, he/she can do a quick SMC, and another BOR/COH and move on.  An explanation as to why the boy is transitioning to another troop at the FC level without any obvious non-scout reason should suffice with an explanation as to why the boy is leaving the previous troop.

 

You use the word "simply" but then describe a process that could become anything but simple, possibly involving having to re-pass requirements he has already passed.  IF (and this seems to be the route that the Scout is attempting in this case) the council would handle it, that seems preferable than going into a new troop with this unresolved issue over a rank that has been earned but no advancement report has been submitted.  One issue with that (and why it's not so simple) is that the signatures on the advancement report are theoretically supposed to be of the troop committee members who sat on the Scout's BOR.  (I say theoretically because in my troop whichever troop committee members are handy sign the advancement reports.)  The committee members in the new troop might not be comfortable doing that, and it's really not right to make the Scout go through another SMC and BOR.

 

And besides, the Scout's mother says she does not want to involve the new troop in this issue.  (I'm going to assume, for sake of argument, that this is also the opinion of the Scout, who is the person who actually should be making the decisions here.)  But if the old troop won't do what's right, and IF the council won't handle it, the new troop is the only remaining option.

Edited November 21, 2016 by NJCubScouter