Flag Ceremony at a Business

[David CO]

Maybe you're just cynical?  Maybe?

 

I agree that the size of the flag and the number of flags flown is not an indicator of greater patriotism.  It is not an indication of insincerity either.

Edited November 15, 2016 by David CO

[David CO]

Good grief.

 

It is not the largest pumpkin patch, or the one with the most pumpkins, that attracts the great pumpkin.  It is the one that is most sincere.

 

Thank you Charles Schulz.

Edited November 15, 2016 by David CO

[Stosh]

Every day I went to work and the flag was half-masted out front I would stop and ask the security guard at the front desk, he could tell you exactly why the flag was half-masted.  Not all businesses are the same.

[qwazse]

...

 

The next time the President order's the flags to be flown at half staff, drive around and see how many of these "patriotic" businesses are doing so.  Maybe I'm just cynical but I just can't help but think that businesses that make a point to fly flags aren;t in it just because of their patriotism or their so-called morality.

I don't know where you live, CP, but 'round here they are all at half mast when need be. I've seen the service workers, saluting as they raise/lower them.

Of course, the National Flag Foundation in the same building as council HQ, prominently overlooking the city, may help.

[gumbymaster]

The next time the President order's the flags to be flown at half staff, drive around and see how many of these "patriotic" businesses are doing so.  Maybe I'm just cynical but I just can't help but think that businesses that make a point to fly flags aren;t in it just because of their patriotism or their so-called morality.

 

Actually, the businesses around here are pretty good about half staffing the flags (except maybe the really giant flag that would hit the ground if half staffed. 

 

Whether they do it right or not (i.e. full staff then lower, etc) I do not know, but doubt - but they do seem to keep abreast of it.

 

----

 

I don't want to get into the I&P of which companies do or do not deserve the service; but my general take on it is, if we (scouts) refuse to do it for a business because of what they (or their management) may or may not believe, we are sending exactly the type of political message that it was the BSA's policy to avoid.  I.e., it is OK to do flags for a political event, as long as we leave afterwards.  Doing flags should be beyond simple political considerations.

 

Now, if the unit truly has a policy not to do flags for any business (or a political event), then I guess that's their choice.  But how far would such a policy extend - even most civic gatherings have corporate sponsors.  Most county fairs are actually run by businesses for that purpose.

 

(Moderators: If this does extend too far into I&P, please just delete my post, don't move the topic).

[Stosh]

@@gumbymaster, is correct.  If the scouts begin to get selective in who they will do a flag ceremony for and who they will not, will move them into the realm of politics in a heartbeat.  Flag ceremonies are to be a-poltical,   Once one crosses the bridge as to deciding who gets one and who doesn't, it's political.  The end result is that in order to be fair, instead of doing flag ceremonies for ALL people, we do it for NONE.  I don't think the BSA needs or wants to promote that policy.

[frankpalazzi]

@@gumbymaster, is correct.  If the scouts begin to get selective in who they will do a flag ceremony for and who they will not, will move them into the realm of politics in a heartbeat.  Flag ceremonies are to be a-poltical,   Once one crosses the bridge as to deciding who gets one and who doesn't, it's political.  The end result is that in order to be fair, instead of doing flag ceremonies for ALL people, we do it for NONE.  I don't think the BSA needs or wants to promote that policy.

AMEN!!!!!

[NJCubScouter]

(Moderators: If this does extend too far into I&P, please just delete my post, don't move the topic).

 

<Moderator hat on>

 

This thread crossed the line into I&P awhile back, in my opinion.  It was not your post that did it, and if it gets moved, it will not be your post that does it.

 

But it has not been moved as of this time.  I have taken a wait-and-see attitude.  None of the other moderators have moved it, though any of them could do so at any time, and I would agree with their action.  But it's not an emergency, as far as I am concerned.  Nobody has complained that the thread is here.  (Not to say that one complaint, or ten, would necessarily require that it be moved, but it is a factor.)  We'll see.

 

<Moderator hat off>

[qwazse]

Thanks moderator. Although I disagree.

 

Some of us are bracing for the flack (or inordinate syrupy praise) we might get if the president (this one or the next) actually takes our unit up on our invite to camp with us in an undisclosed location.

 

Negotiating partisan parents and respecting a private party's desire for goodwill is a social, not political matter.

[NJCubScouter]

Flag ceremonies are to be a-poltical,   Once one crosses the bridge as to deciding who gets one and who doesn't, it's political.

Unless it's already political, which depends on all the circumstances. In the case written about by the original poster, I don't think we have enough information to know whether it is or it isn't. BSA regulations allow limited involvement in events viewed as "political", limited to the flag ceremony itself. But I think a unit can legitimately decide that it does not want to participate at all.

 

On a general note, I think all of us make decisions based at least in part on politics and/or ideology a lot more often than some of us may realize.

[Stosh]

Simply doing a flag ceremony is a political statement.....

 

po·lit·i·cal

pəˈlidək(ə)l/

adjective

adjective: political

of or relating to the government or the public affairs of a country.

"a period of political and economic stability"

synonyms: governmental, government, constitutional, ministerial, parliamentary, diplomatic, legislative, administrative, bureaucratic; More

public, civic, state

"the political affairs of the nation"

• of or relating to the ideas or strategies of a particular party or group in politics.

  "a decision taken for purely political reasons"

  synonyms: politically active, party; More

  militant, factional, partisan

  "he's a political man"
• interested in or active in politics.

  "I'm not very political"
• motivated or caused by a person's beliefs or actions concerning politics.

  "a political crime"
• derogatory

[qwazse]

Unless it's already political, which depends on all the circumstances. In the case written about by the original poster, I don't think we have enough information to know whether it is or it isn't. BSA regulations allow limited involvement in events viewed as "political", limited to the flag ceremony itself. But I think a unit can legitimately decide that it does not want to participate at all.

 

On a general note, I think all of us make decisions based at least in part on politics and/or ideology a lot more often than some of us may realize.

Oh, I get it. Presume guilty first.

 

Of course we make decisions based on ideology. From time to time those are political.

[Eagledad]

Of course we make decisions based on ideology. From time to time those are political.

Yes, I wasn't sure where NJ was going with his statement. Humans base most of their decisions from ideology, and I agree sometimes those choices become political. The gay scouts discussion is a ideological discussion that just happens to be political at this time in our cultural history. What is interesting is that we generally don't change our ideals, but politics many times forces changes of our habits and actions relating to those ideals. I kind of feel like maybe that is what is going on here with the flag ceremony. 

 

Barry

[krypton_son]

Personally I would do it.  It's a patriotic act made by your troop.  Regardless of what the business is or it's political/religious leanings, if it wants a show of duty to country and patriotism, I think it would be almost wrong for Scouting to decline it.  Duty to country is at the heart of Scouting. It always has been. 

[NJCubScouter]

Oh, I get it. Presume guilty first.

 

I have presumed nothing.