Council spy?

[Stosh]

There are good UC's and there are bad UC's.

There are good DE's and there are bad DE's.

There are good SM's and there are bad SM's.

...etc.

 

 

Speaking in sweeping generalities is not really a productive forum endeavor.

[David CO]

I've been a UC in five different councils.  

 

I will strive never to be one again.   Much happier and more productive as a committee chair.

 

Some units welcomed me, others were suspicious, a few were outright hostile.   Most were surprised that a UC even showed up and was interested in how things were going.

 

I helped as much as could.  Truthfully, I continually thought "If I really wanted to help this troop, I'd resign as UC and apply to be an ASM."

 

That's how I feel.  If someone genuinely wants to be helpful to my unit, they should apply to be an Assistant Scoutmaster, unit Committee Member, or merit badge counselor.  We love our unit volunteers, and we greatly appreciate all the good work they do. 

[JasonG172]

That's how I feel.  If someone genuinely wants to be helpful to my unit, they should apply to be an Assistant Scoutmaster, unit Committee Member, or merit badge counselor.  We love our unit volunteers, and we greatly appreciate all the good work they do. 

 

That cant always be the case especially IF they don't "have a dog in the hunt".  Some unit don't allow volunteers unless they have a child active with the unit.  In most cases some UC, ADC and DC are "old Scouters" looking to stay active in scouting in some shape or form and Commissioner Services fits the bill. 

 

Why should you expect an individual to help just you when he/she can help many.  Selfish is what it sounds like to me. 

 

 

I have my Pack (ACM)

I have my Troop (CC)

I am on the Committee at another Troop

and I am on the District Committee

 

I am trying to help anyone and everyone that needs it

[krikkitbot]

In the years that I have been involved with my troop, I have never met our UC... never, ever. I've always wondered what all those people with UC patches do and why they disappear at roundtables after the opening announcements. 

 

The COR is only around when we chase him down because we need signatures. Even then, it takes a number of phone calls and e-mails to be able to reach him. 

[David CO]

The Chartered Organization has the right to set guidelines and standards for selecting the unit's volunteer leaders.  The CO owns the unit.

 

I don't restrict the selection of my unit's volunteer leaders to people who have children in the unit.  We have several great leaders whose children have aged-out, and others who have never had children in the unit.

 

That said, I whole heartedly support the right of other Chartered Organizations to establish that rule for their units.

 

The council has a different set of standards for council volunteers, some of which would conflict with my Chartered Organizations policies and values.  It is entirely possible that the council might appoint a UC who would be totally unacceptable as a unit leader in my troop (for reasons other than not having children in the troop).

 

I totally reject the argument that we should have UC's in order to allow applicant volunteers, who would otherwise be ineligible to participate in our unit in a leadership position, to bypass our Chartered Organizations policies and standards and participate in our unit. I totally reject it.

[Oldscout448]

May one ask what your Chartered Organizations policies are here?   In what ways do they differ from BSAs?   

[Eagle94-A1]

The Chartered Organization has the right to set guidelines and standards for selecting the unit's volunteer leaders.  The CO owns the unit.

 

I don't restrict the selection of my unit's volunteer leaders to people who have children in the unit.  We have several great leaders whose children have aged-out, and others who have never had children in the unit.

 

That said, I whole heartedly support the right of other Chartered Organizations to establish that rule for their units.

 

The council has a different set of standards for council volunteers, some of which would conflict with my Chartered Organizations policies and values.  It is entirely possible that the council might appoint a UC who would be totally unacceptable as a unit leader in my troop (for reasons other than not having children in the troop).

 

I totally reject the argument that we should have UC's in order to allow applicant volunteers, who would otherwise be ineligible to participate in our unit in a leadership position, to bypass our Chartered Organizations policies and standards and participate in our unit. I totally reject it.

 

Again, I think you do not understand the concept of a Unit Commissioner. They are support personnel, not members of your unit(s). Their job is to help, coach, etc the units' leaders when they need help. They also are responsible for visiting units to make sure everything is OK, and try to forestall problems before they explode. 

 

if I remember correctly, you are a COR. You do realize that you are a member of both the district and council committees? You do realize that if you do not like the UC(s) assigned to your unitsyou can request a new one?

[David CO]

Again, I think you do not understand the concept of a Unit Commissioner. They are support personnel, not members of your unit(s). Their job is to help, coach, etc the units' leaders when they need help. They also are responsible for visiting units to make sure everything is OK, and try to forestall problems before they explode. 

 

if I remember correctly, you are a COR. You do realize that you are a member of both the district and council committees? You do realize that if you do not like the UC(s) assigned to your unitsyou can request a new one?

 

I have never been a COR.  The only two adult positions I have ever held in scouting are SM and IH.

 

I am aware of the fact that my COR may sit in district and council committees.  He and I both agree that the system is rigged (at council) and it would be a futile waste of time for him to participate.  

 

My COR does occasionally appear at council to vote against their slate of candidates or register a protest vote on a particular matter that catches his attention.  That's up to him.

 

If the council were to surprisingly decide to heed our wishes, we would ask that they not appoint a UC to our unit.  I very much doubt that will happen.

[Stosh]

The council does not assign UC's, the District Commissioner does.  If a unit does not want a UC, they can always say so and the UC will be placed with a unit that would like to have access to the UC's experience.  One of the primary reasons why units do not know who their UC is, is because there seems to always be a shortage of volunteers for that position and the resources of the UC's the District  does have go toward units having problems.

 

We have a few units in the Council that tend to go their own way with the BSA program.  They really don't want BSA to come in a see what they are up to and the UC is the standard link between District and unit.  With no UC, then there is no "spying" going on.  But if the unit ever gets into difficulty for whatever reason, they tend to contact the DE to come in and solve their problem.  Basically that's not the DE's job, it's the job of the UC.  Of course, at no fault of their own, the UC isn't going to know what's going on with the problem until it has escalated beyond the ability of the unit to handle it.  Even with all my experience in psychology, counseling, youth work, small group dynamics, business management/leadership, I wouldn't touch this issue with a 10' pole. 

 

Why?  By the time it has gotten to this point, it is basically pretty much unsolvable so it's going to be a no-win situation anyway.  That means my psychology training, counseling, youth work, etc. are all telling me that staying home and watching TV or playing on the computer is going to be far more productive than walking blindly into a hornet's nest.  I would politely decline getting involved with that situation.

 

However, if I was a UC with constant contact with the unit on a regular basis and the unit leadership kept me up-to-date on the welfare of the unit, if something hiccups, I will know what went into leading up to the issue and would have had an opportunity to nip it in the bud early enough to keep it off of everyone's radar in the first place.

 

What it all boils down to is how the unit wishes to handle it.....and how much the UC is willing to get involved in the escalated levels of conflict when things eventually boil over.

[Eagle94-A1]

I have never been a COR.  The only two adult positions I have ever held in scouting are SM and IH.

 

I am aware of the fact that my COR may sit in district and council committees.  He and I both agree that the system is rigged (at council) and it would be a futile waste of time for him to participate.  

 

My COR does occasionally appear at council to vote against their slate of candidates or register a protest vote on a particular matter that catches his attention.  That's up to him.

 

If the council were to surprisingly decide to heed our wishes, we would ask that they not appoint a UC to our unit.  I very much doubt that will happen.

 

Sorry you feel that way. Question I have now is, why do you use Scouting? Why not use another program or create your own?

[David CO]

We do have another program, Outdoor Education.  It's great!  I absolutely love going on the OE activities.  They're a blast.  OE is twice the fun and half the aggrivation.

 

Even so, some of our parents still want to have a scout program.  

Edited November 10, 2016 by David CO

[TAHAWK]

But no one argued (yet) that bypassing your CO's standards is a reason to ("in order to allow") have your unit or any other units accept UCs that violate your CO's standards.  I am sure our diocese would accept no rationale for bypassing its enhanced YP standards for adults in any of its youth programs.

 

Have you actually encountered the situation that you totally reject?

 

The statement is that it gives volunteer work to those seeking it and willing to do that work.  I am unaware of any  DC trying to force a UC on an unwilling unit.  DCs are too short of Scouters willing to do the work to waste them on where they are unwanted. 

 

I'm with Stosh.  The quality of UCs varies --  as does the quality of all volunteers.

[David CO]

TAHAWK,

 

JasonG172 did argue that, in post #18, regarding units who would not accept a unit leader who doesn't have a child in the unit.  I was responding to his argument.

 

No, I have never encountered that situation.  I had never even thought of it until I read his post.  Yes, I do totally reject that argument.  It has very serious implications that could go far beyond the discussion of childless volunteers or older volunteers who want to remain active in scouting.

 

Acceptance or denial of an application to become an adult unit leader in my troop is subject to the needs of the unit, not the needs of the adult volunteer. 

 

I feel the same way about someone who wants to be a UC for my unit.  

Edited November 10, 2016 by David CO

[TAHAWK]

TAHAWK,

 

JasonG172 did argue that, in post #18, regarding units who would not accept a unit leader who doesn't have a child in the unit.  I was responding to his argument.

 

 

 

He said: "In most cases some UC, ADC and DC are 'old Scouters' looking to stay active in scouting in some shape or form and Commissioner Services fits the bill. "  

 

I do not presume to speak for anyone else, but that does not seem to argue that the needs of youth be subordinated to the desire of veteran volunteers to stay active.  He seems to be addressing merely their motivation and the reality than many find opportunities to serve Scouting in Commissioner Service. Looking to serve does not, to me, amount to putting the youth, unit, of CO lower on the priority list than the needs of the volunteer - any volunteer.

 

I can conceive of a situation where both the desire of the Scouter and the needs of the youth, unit, and CO are both served.

Edited November 10, 2016 by TAHAWK

[David CO]

May one ask what your Chartered Organizations policies are here?   In what ways do they differ from BSAs?   

 

No, I don't want to force the thread into Issues and Politics.  I would rather speak in general terms.