Camoflage

[Marty_Doyle]

True Yankee fans would probably stone him.

 

SR540Beaver, your post does bring up another issue, that is sort of related to camoflage.

how do units verify, if at all, that a Scout does need the financial assistnmace he or his parents may ask for?

 

Does a $40,000 SUV preclude any assistance? (I agree with your point FOG. I also think your descriptions related to it are getting more entertaining).

[dan]

SebCachia Here are the BSA reasons for the uniform. From the BSA site.

 

The Scouting program has three specific objectives, commonly referred to as the "Aims of Scouting." They are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. The methods by which the aims are achieved are listed below in random order to emphasize the equal importance of each. Ideals Patrols Outdoor Programs Advancement Associations With Adults Personal Growth Uniform The uniform makes the Boy Scout troop visible as a force for good and creates a positive youth image in the community. Boy Scouting is an action program, and wearing the uniform is an action that shows each Boy Scout's commitment to the aims and purposes of Scouting. The uniform gives the Boy Scout identity in a world brotherhood of youth who believe in the same ideals. The uniform is practical attire for Boy Scout activities and provides a way for Boy Scouts to wear the badges that show what they have accomplished.

The uniform is part of the Methods to deliver the program, some leaders do not follow the program. They pick and choose which parts to follow. Is it any different in Europe?

[SebCachia]

I hope i was not misunderstood. I did not mean to say that the uniform is not importaint, meerly that it is second to other parts of scouting. Actualy it is very much the same here in Europe. In malta many people chose what parts of scouting they like and which they dont. Another problem here is the hipocricy. For example while on a group visit to germany one of our members had a camoflage patern daypack, one of the members of the Scouters Council here in malta saw this and sent a long letter telling us about the wrongs of camo. Though not camoflage this same person and many other scouters 'in charge' atend national camps wearning gull metal atire all of the matching year and country of issue from boots to the parka. Also they shout and drill at scouts from realy young ages for pointless reasons. I once even saw one make a 12 year old scout do pushups in the street while on a historical visit for straying slightly from the group... I mean please

[KoreaScouter]

Maybe we ought to re-familiarize ourselves with the description of the uniform method and what it's meant to contribute to the aims. It ain't about lookin' stylish.

 

I inherited a Troop from a SM who, supported by the committee, emphasized full uniforming, and wore it himself. Guess what? The Troop is fully uniformed, and so are the leaders.

 

In my profession, our military working dog handlers have an expression; "What goes down the leash comes up the leash." In other words, the dog senses the handler's attitude, and adopts it as his own. We may be doing the same thing; our Scouts sense our attitudes, see our example, and follow suit.

 

KS

[dan]

SebCachia

But the BSA does not say that the uniform is any less important than the other methods, but they do allow some leeway on the uniform, this was put in for families that could not afford the uniform and some leaders stretch the methods to fit their program instead of following the BSA program.

Sounds like overseas is not much different than here.

[Fat Old Guy]

In my troop, it is up to the Scoutmaster to determine who need financial help. As far as I know there is only one family that really could use help (most of the families have the $40,000 SUVs and $500,000 homes).

 

A few years ago we had a leader who was crying poormouth because he had just moved and his wife wasn't working. The committee wanted to spring for a uniform for him because "he was having problems." I said, "Whoa! This fellow buys coffee that costs $25 a pound. If you buy him a uniform, I want you to pay for mine as well."

[SR540Beaver]

Seb,

 

I fear that what you said is the way many people look at the uniform in Scouting.....that it is second to other parts of Scouting. Actually it is not. It is one of the methods of Scouting and is equal to all of the other methods. Again, this goes back to people picking and choosing which parts of Scouts they want to use. Either it IS Scouting or it AIN'T Scouting. We agree to deliver the program as it is laid down by BSA. While there are no BSA police that are going to fine you for picking and choosing, if you are not following the program; then you are not teaching and following Scouting. You are adding to or taking away from the program. In either case, you are not delivering the program as defined. If league rules say you can't wear metal cleats, you'd better not wear metal cleats. If league rules say you can't steal bases, you'd better not steal bases. If league rules say you must wear a cup, you'd better wear a cup. You can't decide that a ball that tips a players club is a caught ball or that a player is safe when a pop fly is caught.

[SebCachia]

Yes you are right about the importance of the uniform and following the rules of wear of that uniform, now i dont know exactly what the bsa uniform is like but the Malta scouts uniform is not what i would wear to much besides a parade or some other ceremony. It is therefore rational that an activity uniform is worn when the dress uniform cant be worn. This is adopted by all groups in malta and is accepted but should those incharge have the right to say weather scouts can wear a jeans or a combat trowsers or sweatpants if their group administration allows it and they present no siutable alternative??

[SR540Beaver]

Seb,

 

The Current BSA handbook says that the "field uniform" is (and I'm paraphrasing) for meetings and such. The BSA allows for an "activity" uniform which is any BSA or troop t-shirt and BSA pants. Still, the pants are not always appropriate for all activities. That is when the scout where whatever is appropriate.

 

Just out of curiosity, what is your Scouting organization called in Malta and do they have a website?

[VentureScoutNY]

I agree with Beaver, the program is how it is. The people in it need to accpet it. I would tell the same thing to my scouts when they showed up without full uniform " do you wear jeans when you go to play baseball? ".

 

FOG says

"Maybe what BSA really needs to to get away from the designer uniform and go back to a practical uniform that can be worn outdoors and with the application of soap and an iron looks good for ceremonies."

 

That's exactly what we need. Something Practical and something that can be consistant. We need to be easily identified as a group. So many times I see kids around town that are scouts doing scout activities wearing jeans and jerseys and no one would knows who they are.

 

From the BSA website

"The uniform makes the Boy Scout troop visible as a force for good and creates a positive youth image in the community. "

 

Thats why we do what we do, and the rules are what they are.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

SebCachia said, "i dont know exactly what the bsa uniform is like but the Malta scouts uniform is not what i would wear to much besides a parade or some other ceremony."

 

The BSA uniform is currenly a khaki shirt and olive green pants made out of a polyesther/cotton blend. Neither is made of a heavy fabric and are not very durable.

 

Until the 1970s, the BSA had a very durable uniform that could be worn camping and hiking or for parades.

 

Today, we have the problem that many boys don't want to be seen in their uniforms. One Scout is so embarassed by being a Scout that he lies to his friends about where he goes on meeting nights and on campouts.

 

 

 

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

The Scout Association of Malta can be found at http://www.maltascout.org.mt/

[VentureScoutNY]

What does a Malta Scout Uniform look like? Material etc..

[SebCachia]

Actualy our uniform is quite similar to how FOG described your uniform. It consists of a khaki shirt quite similar in cut to the original BP shirts and made of cotton and some man made fibres (infact its not all that bad for moderate outdoor activities) the pants on the other hand is a slightly darker khaki and is made out of some very undurable man made fibre. The pants is uncomfortable to sit in let alone hike in. Then we have a dark green beret and the usual neck scarf, lanyard etc... do your scouts have a choice of wearing shorts or pants??? We used to but not anymore... Whats your opinion on shorts in the uniform?

[Blaze66]

Finally I think most in here can agree on a couple of points. One contrary to popular beliefs, I do think that the uniform is an important part of scouting. It does put all scouts on some equal ground as far as looking alike and feeling part of a group and being accepted. We do try in our troop to enforce the uniform policies of BSA and encourage all scouts in our troop to wear full field uniforms to meetings and other special occasions. And the biggest thing I think is agreed on is that the new uniforms are not practical or durable. It kind of hit me last night at our meeting. I put on my scout pants which even though I got one size bigger than I normally wear, do not fit worth a dime! The are so uncomfortable, but I tolarate it for a couple of hours ever week because I do try to lead by example when it comes to uniforms. I think if BSA would just go back to the old styles where you can activly do things in the field uniform, we wouldn't have as much problem trying to get scouts to wear them. That is why when we are out doing an activity we allow our scouts to wear the field uniform shirt with any pants that they are comfortable wearing but don't look gaudy or too loud. Wearing that field shirt just gives us more visibility which is exactly what you need when your out in the community doing activities. None of the scouts in our troop are ashamed to wear their uniform out in public when we are doing things, although we do sometimes have a problem with one or two of the older high school age kids. Who doesn't have problems with them. But it's not that we are trying to go against any policy or make our own rules, it's just because the field uniform is not practicle for anything other than meetings, parades, ceremonies, etc... You sometimes have to come up with alternative ways to wear the uniform for visibility while still wearing clothing that is functional for the activity you are doing. No one in scouting is ever going to totally agree on everything. Everyone has their own opinions and beliefs. But one thing we should all agree on is it's not about shirts or pants or socks... it's about helping to make men of character and integrity. And when they change the scout law from 12 points to 13 and it says, ... Brave, Clean, Reverant, and in Full Uniform at all Times, then I will worry more about uniforms.