Camoflage

[SebCachia]

Hey just wondering what the aproach to scouts wearing camoflage is in your countries? In Malta the council keeps trying to hold a firm stance against it to seperate scouting from the military... what do you all think?

[scoutldr]

In the US, we encourage proper uniforming for all Scout activities. The BSA uniform does not include camouflage. If they are not in uniform, they can wear whatever they want, as long as it does not reflect poorly on the BSA, the Troop, or the Chartering Organization. Examples would be T-shirts which depict images of tobacco, alcohol, drugs, racism, weapons, profanity or sexual connotations.

 

Welcome to the forum! Our international brothers and sisters in Scouting are always welcomed around the campfire!(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[Owl62]

Welcome,

 

In the BSA, there is an official policy against camouflage clothing. And BSA members are not permitted to wear imitation or actual military uniforms. Military uniforms in the USA are protected by law - only authorized members of the military are authorize to wear them.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Where in the BSA rules does it say you cant wear Camo? Of course, I am not talking about imitating armed services uniforms, I know of a troop that uses a camo print on their neckerchief

[Fat Old Guy]

Back when Roy Williams was director of the Boy Scout Division, he issued a memo stating that cammo, hunting apparel and military field gear is not allowed to be used in BSA. Of course this means that if you want to use an Army canteen, BSA says "nope."

[SebCachia]

Realy?? Isnt that a bit exagerated. I mean there is no need to equip a troop like a private army but millitary equipment is extreamly durable and whell priced for that so i suppose there should be no need to be that strict... Dont you use any ex-military tents and marquees over there??

[Fat Old Guy]

I use a fair amount of military equipment because, as you said, it is well made and inexpensive. Fortunately, there are no penalties for breaking the rules. Well, I suppose that they could throw me out of Scouting but that isn't likely.

 

What sort of Army gear do I use? Folding shovel, web belt and suspenders with fanny pack, assorted pouches and an a very large backpack.

 

I don't know of any units that use Army tents. BSA sells big canvas tents that are used at summer camp but most troops have lightweight nylon tents from Eureaka, Coleman or some other company.

 

 

[SebCachia]

We have lightweight nylon tents too mostly dome tents with a few small ridge tents. Any large canvas tents are normaly ex military here due to our countries small size and limited manufacturers... Anyway tnks for your replies I got quite a good idea of what i wanted to know.

[OldGreyEagle]

Ya guys know, the library is full if stories I don't know anything about, and I guess this is one of them. FOG, do you know where I could find a copy of Mr Williams memo concerning Camo? I use some equipment with camo on it and quite a few scouts in the troop use the field jacket and assorted items for all the reasons already discussed.

 

I know the whole issue of Camo has been a topic here a few times and I have never heard about the Williams memo. Then again, not being omnipotent does have its drawbacks. Note: I am not talking about imatating military uniforms, just use of lawfully obtained and worn camo items.

[scoutldr]

Living in this country grants us certain liberties that even the BSA can't take away. Down here, south of the Mason-Dixon line, I dare anyone from Irving to come tell us we can't wear "hunting apparel"...whatever that is.

[Fat Old Guy]

OGE, like many things in BSA, it seems to be double-secret. The memo is refered to at Mike Walton's web site, http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/camo.htm

 

As part of the memorandum, it talks about the Insignia Guide being updated to reflect the emphasis...but I have three copies of the Insignia Guide here in my hotel room, and all three doesn't address "civilian camo" like "hunting gear" even though Mr. Williams' memorandum does address "hunting and military-style clothing and equipment" in the memorandum.

 

He states that "hunting and military-style clothing, combined with or worn instead of the official Boy Scout or Explorer uniform, are not acceptable wear during any Boy Scouting or Exploring activity. Scout Executives are to instruct unit leaders and volunteers that those articles of clothing along with equipment like pistol belts, suspenders and military field gear are not allowed to be worn with official Boy Scouts of America clothing or in the place of BSA uniforms and outdoor clothing." (I wish that someone will dig out that copy and send it to the Chief and tell him to please post in in the new edition of the Insignia Guide.....I think it's pretty clear but it's not out there where everyone can read and go by it....)

[NJCubScouter]

I knew I had seen an extensive discussion of this subject once, and here it is:

 

http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/camo.htm

 

This is part of the "Mike Walton site" which I have seen discussed here before. Some of this page consists of Mike Walton's own opinions, but it does have part of a memo from "Mr. Williams" which I take to mean the memo that FOG refers to.

 

The issue does NOT seem to be as simple as "military garb is not part of the BSA uniform." Jeans aren't either, but this page draws a distinction between jeans and "military and hunting-style" clothing. At district events, I have seen many, many units where few if any of the Scouts or leaders are wearing Scout pants. Most of the people not wearing Scout pants are wearing jeans. I have never seen anyone say anything about it. (Not counting in my son's troop, where the SM makes clear when it seems necessary, that Scout pants are part of the uniform, and at present there is virtually complete compliance.)

 

However, I also have seen various elements of military and hunting-style clothing worn in situations where the uniform is generally not worn (such as weekend troop campouts), and I have seen some people wearing pants of this type at district events, and I have never seen or heard of anyone saying anything about it.

 

Nevertheless, I have seen both adults and boys wearing camoflage clothing, sometimes

[OldGreyEagle]

Holy Mackeral,

 

First a couple of observations, first of all, FOG what are you doing with three insigna guides in your Hotel room? I thought I was a basket case when it came to scuting, but I will print your post to prove to Mrs Eagle that there is at least one scouter who is more gonzo then I.

 

Next, if its such an issue that a Memo is issued on the subject, shouldn't it be in the Boy Scout Handbook, Scoutmaster Handbook, etc or the very least mentioned in the Insginia Guide? Why is the only mention of it (so far) on a NOn-BSA site?

[Fat Old Guy]

I only have two insignia guides, that was Mike Walton writing who had the three insignia guides.

 

Apparently, there are memos that go out to SEs about policies that are never seen by mere mortals. There was a double secret memo put out by Cub Scouting back in the mid 90s that said that a Pack could opt out of the blue uniform and wear the khaki uniform for all ranks. The problem is that you can't get your hands on those memos.

[flyingember]

Strange.

 

If camo was disallowed we'd lose some great camping clothing. My Warrensburg troop is 10 miles from a major military base (Whiteman which has the B-2 bomber) and camos are everywhere.

 

Plus, even Walmart sells camo pants now.

 

I just picked up some new Marine Camos through a friend and it's great clothing, I use the jacket the most. I now want pockets on my arms on all my jackets.