Foreign "Eagle" Scouts

[Ankylus]

Apologies to our international brethren for the US-centric nature of this thread.

 

In the course of my scouting adventures, I have had the good fortune to meet several people who have earned the equivalent of Eagle scout in the scouting programs of their native lands. I have known several Canadians, a Scot, an Argentinean, and a Colombian so far as I know.

 

Does BSA contemplate recognition of these achievements in foreign scouting programs on the adult leader uniform? Our local scout shop is a national store, and they won't sell them the Eagle scout knot. (At least, that's what one of the Canadians told me.)

 

Are they relegated to, perhaps, wearing their badge as a temporary patch? Is even that permissible in light of the fact that it's from a foreign scouting program?

[Eagle94-A1]

Unfortunately they are not authorized to wear the Eagle knot.

 

This is what the Guide to Awards and Insignia says:

 

Awards From Other Scouting Associations

Scouters occasionally receive awards from

Scouting associations of other nations, and it is

important that they know how these awards

should be worn. This does not include jamboree

patches. Following are the regulations for

wearing such awards:

1.They are always worn when visiting the country whose Scouting association presented the award or when attending a meeting or function attended by Scouters from that country.

 

2.Medals awarded by other associations

are worn above the left breast pocket

[David CO]

Are they illegal eagles?

[qwazse]

Are they illegal eagles?

there's not a knot for that, but surely it's not all for naught?

[ianwilkins]

Could they, he said, listening out carefully for the badge police, just wear the foreign award badge on their BSA uniform? I know in the UK leaders are entitled to wear the Queen's Scout Award on their adult uniform. I'm sure there's a suitable place it could go, like on the right breast where it's supposed to go on the UK uniform. After all, they're entitled to wear it. They haven't earnt Eagle so can't wear it, seems fair enough.

 

An interesting question though. I have an Award of Merit knot badge, awarded for outstanding service to scouting, if I moved to the states and volunteered...would I wear it? I'm not sure. People would naturally ask what it was, and it seems a bit showing off to just drop "oh it's my UK award for outstanding service to scouting". Not that I'm not proud of it, and I'm touched that people thought I deserved it. If I did wear it...and the badge police told me to take it off...then there might be a full and frank discussion.

Edited September 29, 2016 by ianwilkins

[qwazse]

@@ianwilkins, if it's a medal and the scouter is attending a court of honor or some other affair wear medals are worn, I would encourage wearing the medal.

 

If it's a knot, I would encourage sewing it on to help draw the uniform police off our boys!

 

We need to realize that the goal of the insignia guide is to encourage a tidy appearance (and reserve certain portions of cloth for advertising BSA functions like Councils, O/A, and National Jamborees), not to dictate what and what not a scouter proudly acknowledge.

[ianwilkins]

If it's a knot, I would encourage sewing it on to help draw the uniform police off our boys!

 

 

Good thinking. Draw their fire onto the sternest defences.

 

As it happens, the award of merit is a gold coloured emblem on a green ribbon worn around the neck

 

http://www.harboroughscouts.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/merit-awardcropped.jpg

 

You also get a badge, with an embroidered knot on it, to sew on above the right breast.

 

I'd imagine that wearing the ribbon with an adult  BSA uniform would definitely catch the eye of the badge police, and the curious. I could tie them up for ages banging on about my "good deeds" while everyone else sneaked past.

[qwazse]

Good thinking. Draw their fire onto the sternest defences.

 

As it happens, the award of merit is a gold coloured emblem on a green ribbon worn around the neck

 

http://www.harboroughscouts.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/merit-awardcropped.jpg

 

You also get a badge, with an embroidered knot on it, to sew on above the right breast.

 

I'd imagine that wearing the ribbon with an adult  BSA uniform would definitely catch the eye of the badge police, and the curious. I could tie them up for ages banging on about my "good deeds" while everyone else sneaked past.

I have a venturing leadership award http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing/Awards/leadership.aspxthat similarly comes with a medal hung on a neck ribbon and a knot. I got an extra knot to put on my boy scout uniform as well as my venturing uniform. The medal only comes out on special occasions. (Although many such occasions are at the end of a weekend camp, and as such, I've forgotten to pack it. )

 

Most of us uniform police, when we see an irregular patch, are more interested, in the story the wear has to tell about it. My problem these days is that my scouts often neglect putting the totems of their stories on their uniform. As a result, they miss an opportunity to tell their scouting story to a cub (and the occasional girlfriend) who would ask about a particular patch neatly placed and not surrounded by clutter.

 

So, I think your knot has a story to tell, and should you find yourself serving in a BSA uniform, you should affix it above the left pocket where such recognition would go. The medal should hang from your neck at functions where such scouter awards would be recognized (e.g., silver beaver, district awards of merit, etc ...).

[craig.noah]

I would think a Scout or Scouter from another country would be perfectly acceptable in their country's uniform, no matter where they are visiting.

[krikkitbot]

I would think a Scout or Scouter from another country would be perfectly acceptable in their country's uniform, no matter where they are visiting.

I think the issue is not visiting but rather having become a scouter in the states after having earned their top rank in their country of origin. 

[EmberMike]

Maybe there should be a square knot for some of these other eagle-equivalent ranks. We've got that new Scouting Service Award square knot that is used to recognize several awards into this one square knot. There could be a square knot for international rank recognition, listing approved ranks/programs that the award would cover. 

[Col. Flagg]

We have an Eagle equivalent from India. He's a great person for the boys to talk to. Different perspective altogether. We just have rattlers, copperheads and cottonmouths to look out for. Imagine dodging mambas, cobras and vipers on camp outs.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Ankylus]

I think the issue is not visiting but rather having become a scouter in the states after having earned their top rank in their country of origin. 

 

Spot on. For example, the Colombian is now a registered leader in our troop. The issue is, when she wears her BSA uniform, is there some way to recognize her achievement as a youth in Colombia? And I think @Eagles94-A1 got me my answer.

 

I do find the notion of a "square knot" recognition using a catch-all square knot to be a fine solution, as well. Can't imagine the paperwork national would require for that, though.

[justbill]

Or, instead of muddying the water, wear the award OVER THE LEFT POCKET as previously mentioned. Why have a catch-all knot that could mean lots of things? The actual award is SO much more interesting and meaningful.

On 9/28/2016 at 6:06 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

This is what the Guide to Awards and Insignia says:

 

Awards From Other Scouting Associations

 

2.Medals awarded by other associations

are worn above the left breast pocket

 

[EmberMike]

17 hours ago, justbill said:

Or, instead of muddying the water, wear the award OVER THE LEFT POCKET as previously mentioned. Why have a catch-all knot that could mean lots of things? The actual award is SO much more interesting and meaningful.

 

For occasional wear, that would work. But long-term? Medals aren't all that practical for frequent wear on the uniform. Especially if you're wearing your uniform during some sort of activity, having that medal clanging around on your shirt can be annoying. 

Medals to me always seemed like formal wear. In the field, they generally aren't worn as much or at all. Square knots are a practical alternative to medals to show award but in a more everyday-wear sort of way.