What should the Troop pay for at ECOH?

[eagle90]

In our troop, the troop supplies a cake and punch.  Any other refreshments are the responsibilities of the families.  We also supply an Eagle neckerchief.

 

Our council supplies the Eagle Kit

 

 

Dale

[qwazse]

As I recall separate ECOH were the exception; they were a schedule accommodation made for a scout soon leaving for the service or college.

 

Back in the day, my ECOH was part of a regular troop meeting COH. Fellow scouts were presented their rank awards ahead of me, the finale-Eagle. Now doesn't that make sense! It was a tight-run ceremony (90 minutes on a school night) much to relief of all present, including me.

 

IMO, when separate ECOH became the rule rather than the exception, troops lost control and understandably so. Good luck to the BSA or Councils in trying to undo the present entitlement of 3-4 hour Eagle coronations.

I think mine was something like that as well. But, the bulk of the time was spent on the Eagle award (including some guest speakers). Being in the spring, there were not a lot of rank advancements. There still was a cookie table c/o some church ladies whose husbands were on the committee (including mom, who was gonna make sure there was a decent stack of pizzelles for the boys). We were eating off of my project (refinished tables ... saving the church purchasing newer, inferior looking, ones).

 

There is push-back from some boys about ceremonies being blown out of proportion. I attribute that to the increasing average age of attainment. So, we do have more Eagles leaving town by the time a ceremony can be scheduled. Some young men have already mentally "moved on". But this article from a few years back http://settumanque.org/2013/04/our-new-eagle-scouts-wont-do-a-court-of-honor-help-26-mar-13/points to a generally depressed national mood as part of the problem. It also gives some suggestions as to how to restore some balance so that boys don't dread the process.

[RememberSchiff]

I think mine was something like that as well. But, the bulk of the time was spent on the Eagle award (including some guest speakers). Being in the spring, there were not a lot of rank advancements. There still was a cookie table c/o some church ladies whose husbands were on the committee (including mom, who was gonna make sure there was a decent stack of pizzelles for the boys). We were eating off of my project (refinished tables ... saving the church purchasing newer, inferior looking, ones).

 

There is push-back from some boys about ceremonies being blown out of proportion. I attribute that to the increasing average age of attainment. So, we do have more Eagles leaving town by the time a ceremony can be scheduled. Some young men have already mentally "moved on". But this article from a few years back http://settumanque.org/2013/04/our-new-eagle-scouts-wont-do-a-court-of-honor-help-26-mar-13/points to a generally depressed national mood as part of the problem. It also gives some suggestions as to how to restore some balance so that boys don't dread the process.

 

That link is an interesting read of varying opinions, learned and confused.     Restore some balance... just one oath, the Scout oath please.

[cchoat]

In our troop, we provide the Eagle Presentation Kit (Patch, Mom, Dad and Mentor Pins and Medal) and eagle necker.  The new eagle scout is responcible to plan and put on his ceremony. This is all discussed with the parents when the scout reaches Life and begins to progress toward Eagle so there is no surprise.  It's up to the eagle scout family as to where and how fancy the ECOH will be.

[Eagle94-A1]

As you can see, lots of differences.

 

One troop does 1 ECOH a year. It's done in conjunction with their CO's Scout Sunday and you easily get 5 to 12 Eagles at the event. It is literally standing room only as everyone, Eagles, Family Members, and congregation attend. The troop and CO pay for the food, drinks, etc. Council pays for the presentation kit. If you want your own ECOH, you are on your own.

 

Another unit I know about also does 1 ECOH a year. They let the group of Eagles decide what they want to do prior to or after the ECOH. My buddy's Eagle class decided to "fly with the Eagles" and they got a helicopter tour of the city.

 

One troop did absolutely nothing. I felt bad for the Eagle and his family because the family didn't know, or couldn't afford, to have food, drinks, etc.  Also the troop didn't have any ceremony; just gave him the Eagle Charge and presented the medal to him. It lasted about 5-10 minutes.

 

My troop growing up did individual ECOHs. Troop provided drinks and some refreshments. I bought the cake and programs.  The troop also provided the presentation kit, your nameplate on the troop's Eagle Scout plaque, and made an Eagle Scout table top for use at COHs. I admit I used that table top to reserve my seat a time or two.

 

Current troop has not had an Eagle in years. Hoping to have one this time next year as on Scout is pushing it. He has 5 months minimum left for Life. One of their COHs was at the local Scout camp.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

I'm firmly with @@CalicoPenn.  All Courts of Honor are troop events, eh?  They should be hosted by da troop, and organized and run by da PLC.  The Eagle(s) and family(s) are honored guests.  I reckon it just ain't courteous for us to make our honored guests do the work and pay for the meal.   Much like school graduation or award ceremonies, eh?  They're run by the school.   Black belt award ceremonies?  Run by the dojo.  In fact, I can't think of any organization that expects da folks being honored to pay for or plan their own award ceremony.

 

I reckon there are few good, sensible Scoutin' reasons for this, eh?  

 

First is Uniform Method.  We use uniforms in part to show we're part of a team, and in part to show that every lad is an equal part of da team.  The problem with da parent-run Wedding Banquet Eagle thing is that it breaks this lesson and tradition for our highest honor.  Families that are more well-to-do can hire da local band and finish with fireworks (yah, I've seen this!), leavin' da family that scraped and saved and pinched for Scoutin' to not want a ceremony (seen this, too).  Folks are pretty private about family finances, eh?  In my experience, it's hard for da unit leaders to really know.   

 

I just think it's a better example and better lesson for da Eagle Award to celebrate what we have in common, rather than highlight our differences, eh?

 

Second reason is that these adult-directed, adult-run things tend to be a bit awful for the lads.  Hype and hoopla and speechifyin'  and all the rest.  Can't imagine why we think the boys care about such stuff.  Scoutin' should be youth-run to the end, eh?  Our capstone award should reflect that.   Da boy-run events I find much more enjoyable and meaningful.  Sometimes roasts of da Eagle, sometimes campfires and reflections, sometimes hilarious skits.   I reckon s'mores and dutch oven cobbler belong at an ECOH a lot more than store-bought sheet cake.

 

Let da families do an after-party if they want, or combine it with a graduation party.   Keep da ECOH a real Scoutin' event.

 

Just MHO.

 

Beavah

(who reckons he's been to way too many Weddin' Banquet foorahs this year)

[desertrat77]

I'm all for presenting Eagle at a regular troop court of honor.   The new Tenderfoot, proud of his new rank patch, will remember that he was part of the same ceremony as a new Eagle--a scout he looked up too.   Motivation.

 

The coronation-style ECOHs may actually tarnish the rank a bit in the eyes of some.   Too much hoopla.

 

And to commit further heresy, why does the new Eagle need a fancy pledge, oath, charge etc?   The scout oath and law suddenly aren't good enough?

 

To me, the rank of Eagle doesn't need to be gilded.   It speaks for itself.

 

So, if the family wants a separate gala after a troop COH, that's fine.   But let's start bringing the Eagle rank back home--to the troop.

 

The BSA would be miles ahead by treating all of its alum as peers.

Edited September 24, 2016 by desertrat77

[Eagle94-A1]

I understand Beavah and desertrat77's views, and agree with them to a degree. I've heard of over the top ECOHs, but have been fortunate in that the bulk are "traditional" in that they use the troop's standard ceremony.

 

But I admit I like having a separate ECOH. One reason is that folks from out of town and others can plan to attend. I know I invited my uncle and cousin to my ECOH, and was extremely surprised that my old SPL was able to get leave to attend my ECOH. I sent him an invite just pro forma as I didn't believe he would be able to make it. So glad he did, especially since my uncle and cousin didn't show. Yep old SPL had to roast me and do their parts as well. BEST.DARN. SURPRISE. EVER.

 

Also, one of my Eagles specifically planned his ECOH around my vacation plans. Yes this guy waited about 8 months so that I could attend.

[Sentinel947]

Council provides Eagle kit. We provide necker.

 

We recognize the Eagle Scouts at a Troop court of honor and present them with the necker. If they want a more formalized ceremony with the Eagle medal presentation, the scout and the family can plan that out.

[qwazse]

Yah, hmmm...

.... Second reason is that these adult-directed, adult-run things tend to be a bit awful for the lads.  Hype and hoopla and speechifyin'  and all the rest.  Can't imagine why we think the boys care about such stuff.  Scoutin' should be youth-run to the end, eh?  Our capstone award should reflect that.   Da boy-run events I find much more enjoyable and meaningful.  Sometimes roasts of da Eagle, sometimes campfires and reflections, sometimes hilarious skits.   I reckon s'mores and dutch oven cobbler belong at an ECOH a lot more than store-bought sheet cake. ...

I, for one, loved the "hype hoopla and speechifying" from my very first ECoH. It only got kinda boring on me in later life.

I am constantly asking boys if they want to do anything different. They either want that special day with that 1/2 hour ceremony (not just the Eagles themselves, but the scouts performing the ceremonies)  or don't want any ceremony (in spite of offering the most profoundly simple possibilities that some of you describe).

 

P.S. - I'd just like to throw out a dare to any scouter and his/her boys: a panel-discussion format CoH let us know if you ever manage to pull off something of the sort.

[desertrat77]

I, for one, loved the "hype hoopla and speechifying" from my very first ECoH. It only got kinda boring on me in later life.

I am constantly asking boys if they want to do anything different. They either want that special day with that 1/2 hour ceremony (not just the Eagles themselves, but the scouts performing the ceremonies)  or don't want any ceremony (in spite of offering the most profoundly simple possibilities that some of you describe).

 

P.S. - I'd just like to throw out a dare to any scouter and his/her boys: a panel-discussion format CoH let us know if you ever manage to pull off something of the sort.

Good morning Qwazse,

 

A half hour ECOH would be a welcome and relatively quick ceremony compared to some I've attended--an hour plus.    Usually due to the word-for-word reading of multiple congratulations letters and the extra oaths.

 

The panel format is a great idea--newest Eagle, oldest, etc, answering questions and offering insights.   I'd find that very interesting.

[qwazse]

Good morning Qwazse,

 

A half hour ECOH would be a welcome and relatively quick ceremony compared to some I've attended--an hour plus.    Usually due to the word-for-word reading of multiple congratulations letters and the extra oaths.

 

The panel format is a great idea--newest Eagle, oldest, etc, answering questions and offering insights.   I'd find that very interesting.

We've had some doozies, but none more than an hour.

When I coach boys on ceremonies, I encourage them to read the script, out load, with a stop-watch, then double that time.

 

NESA's oath isn't that long. But it's longer if you wait for all the Eagles in the room to shuffle to the front to join the boy and his parents, as we often do.

The charge can be long. But it's better if an honored guest presents it using that skeleton in his own words.

 

I really thought I had the perfect scout (and buddies, and maybe even adult or two) for the panel discussion. And I had the right audience of scouts and scouters who would write some good questions on cards, plus one of the better readers among SPLs to present the questions. But he's a bit of a smart-mouth and knows it, so I think he really wanted to have a script for himself to avoid saying something "in the grey area." I've offered to others since then, but zero traction. It would be nice to hear of someone out there giving it a go.

[RememberSchiff]

NESA's oath isn't that long. But it's longer if you wait for all the Eagles in the room to shuffle to the front to join the boy and his parents, as we often do.

The charge can be long. But it's better if an honored guest presents it using that skeleton in his own words.

 

 

When and why were a separate Eagle oath and Charge created? Stick with the Scout Oath and Law. Seems like Festivus!

 

My $0.02,

[qwazse]

When and why were a separate Eagle oath and Charge created? Stick with the Scout Oath and Law. Seems like Festivus!

 

My $0.02,

They were extant in the 70s. (My troop was pretty much a backwater, so if they were using it, others must have been.)

As to why? Never asked. Do any of these appear anywhere in print ... Including a byline?

[desertrat77]

I too seem to recall an oath or charge at my ceremony, late 70's.