Fundraising - Kids or Adults?

[meyerc13]

Something Stosh said in another thread got me thinking, and rather than let yet another thread go off topic, I thought I'd start a new one to disuss:

The fund raising efforts of the troop are purely the responsibility of the parents to organize and run.  The boys assist them so they have a bit of skin in the game.

 

Contrast that with:

 

A Scout is Thrifty. A Scout works to pay his own way and to help others.

 

 

Up here in Northeast Wisconsin, the Green Bay Packers are a big deal.  Every home game is sold out, and all of those fans in the stands need to be fed.  The Packers allow non-profit groups to run their concessions stands for a share of the profits, and as you can imagine this can be a very lucrative method of fund raising.

 

Here's the catch - the people working need to be over the age of 18 (due to alcohol sales).  So that means the parents are working, not the Scouts.

 

Personally, when I heard that Troops were using this for fundraising, I thought, "That's not right... the boys should be raising the funds they intend to spend... not the adults."

 

I'm curious to hear Stosh's explanation for what he said, because I still think that Boys should be working to earn money for their Troops.  When I was a Scout, we held a Chili Dinner each year as our primary fundraiser.  We could make enough off of that to keep the Troop going throughout the year.  Sure, the adults put on hats and aprons to help us out, but every boy in the Troop worked hard to prep, cook, and serve the food.

 

When the adults do all of the work, as in the Lambeau Field Concession fundraisers, isn't that going against the Scout Law?

[mashmaster]

Here in Austin, the concessions at UT games are run by scouts for fundraising.  Sadly, the Girl Scouts have it monopolized and the Boy Scouts do have the opportunity.  Scouts need to be 13 to work it and earn about $75 per scout per game.  So it adds up really nicely.  Adults also get credit for that amount to the troop.  The stands that the scouts run are alcohol free.  

 

I guess the answer to your question is that since the parents are the only ones raising the money it doesn't really teach the scouts the value of the work.  They don't have skin in the game.  Now if it is both scouts and parents working together, I would make the boys figure out the work charts for the boys and adults.

[RememberSchiff]

Being thrifty refers the wise use of your money and resources. One can be very thrifty by having others incur all the expenses and do all the work.  

[blw2]

Off topic of fundraising, but related me thinks.....

 

As treasurer, I have been trying to work with the scribe, making effort to give that scout something more to do than just wear the patch for 6 months....  Since I'm treasurer, I'm looking at ways to get the scout involved with collecting money and such, and at the same time thinking of ways to try to get the parents out of it more, and let the scouts bring in their own money...

 

Anyway, a couple weeks back I was participating in a chat over at ScoutmasterCG.  Clarke suggested that maybe it's a good idea to get the scouts completely out of the money thing, and let them focus on the fun and learning part of the program.  His point more or less if I understood it correctly, was that there really isn't a lot of value in it for the scouts that they don't already get elsewhere.... and that it's more of a distraction really.  To let them do the outdoor stuff that they might only get in scouting.  I'm not really writing it all very well, but that was the overall gist.  Not a bad point I think.

 

I mean think about it.... Fundraising (or collecting and tracking who paid and who didn't) is really a whole lot of papershuffle.  Take things to an extreme and say it this way..... if we were to make scouts 80%, 90%, 100% paper work and admin, then where's the fun in that?  Not too many scouts are gonna stick around to get the good stuff that Scouts offers.....

 

don't get me wrong, i see the points about practicing responsibility, learning about working with money, etc... but i do think this counterpoint has some merit.

[CalicoPenn]

I don't see a conflict between Stosh's statement and the Scout Law.  A Scout is Thrifty talks about a Scout working to pay their own way - not planning and managing fundraisers.  Unless you have some older Scouts with little to do, I have no problem with the parents planning chili or spaghetti dinners, pancake breakfasts, etc. as long as the Scouts work it.

 

That being said, an opportunity like those available at the Green Bay games might be too good to miss, even with the age restriction - so I would try to find some kind of opportunity for the boys to "earn" what the parents raised - some service projects that don't count towards advancement perhaps - and in that particular example, I might try to hook the Scouts up with a service project that benefits one (or more) of the local charities that the Green Bay Packers support through their charitable foundation (and most sport's teams have them).  A smart Troop would choose one or two local groups before hand and if the Packers would allow it, advertise that because the BSA believes that the Scouts should help earn their own way, and because age restrictions prevent the Scouts from helping at the concession stand, the Scouts will be doing service projects for Green Bay Packer Foundation grant recipients "Food Bank", "Public Library" and "Public Museum" this year.

 

I'm not to sure about Clarke's suggestion.  I like that parents are involved in the fundraising - I think it's important for the parents to have some sort of connection to the activities of the Troop - but as Stosh suggested, it's important for the boys to have skin in the game as well.

Edited September 16, 2016 by CalicoPenn

[T2Eagle]

I've never read " A scout pays his own way..." to mean a only a scout should be paying for his own way, I've always believed it was about the scout making his fair contribution to a program that he was benefiting from, and I think that can take a variety of different forms of time, treasure, and talent.

 

Part of what colors my thinking is that I view scouting as a necessary component of my sons' education and development.  I don't think of it as a luxury or wholly discretionary activity akin to a trip to the movies, a video game, Disney World, or even sports teams.  I see its value as greater than all of those, and believe I have a responsibility to make sure the opportunity is there for him, and other youth, in a way that is fundamentally different than entertainment or recreational activities.

[ParkMan]

A trip to Disney World is discretionary?  Somehow I missed that note 

 

Like many things, I think this is really a question of where you are as a troop.  If you've got a world class, boy led troop, then yes - having the boys lead and execute a fundraising campaign sounds great.  They learn a new skill, get to show some leadership, get to apply some elbow grease to making their dreams a reality.  

 

But, if your troop isn't quite there yet, then I think I'd be perfectly fine with having this be adult led.  For example - my son's in a good troop, but it's got a long way to go to being truly boy led. More often than not, I'm underwhelmed with what adults challenge the scouts do for the program parts of scouting.  So, I'd rather have us focus on getting the boys to be stronger troop leaders than worrying about organizing fundraising.  

 

Participating in fundraising has a lower bar.  If you've got a couple of fundraising activities/events - having scouts participate in those seems fine.  If they're helping at an event, it's like a service project that benefits the troop.  If they're selling a few items (ex. popcorn) getting a scout to sell a few items builds some skills.  

 

I'd just watch the level of effort here.  Spending 2 months focusing largely on popcorn can be a distraction from building program.  If you're troop is humming, then no big sweat.  If it's like many of ours, then I think those 2 months could be better spent.

[blw2]

does thrifty = paying your own way?

   no way....

thrifty means thriving, prosperous, successful.... being careful and wise with your money.... and I can see extending that to equipment and other stuff. I can see a stretch using the modern twist to the meaning, for it to also mean something like not wasteful, doing a lot with a little.

 

I can't get to paying your own way in any of that.

[Torchwood]

Hmm, every explanation of the points of the Scout Law I have ever seen have mentioned the "pays his own way" thing. He is being thrifty with his family's resources by not expecting Mom & Dad to open their wallets every time he wants something. That would mean to me that every Scout needs to participate in fundraising for the Troop.

[CalicoPenn]

does thrifty = paying your own way?

   no way....

thrifty means thriving, prosperous, successful.... being careful and wise with your money.... and I can see extending that to equipment and other stuff. I can see a stretch using the modern twist to the meaning, for it to also mean something like not wasteful, doing a lot with a little.

 

I can't get to paying your own way in any of that.

 

Here's how the BSA defines it in Boy's Life magazine:

 

A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.

 

That's pretty much the way I remember it from back in the dim ages.

 

It doesn't say thriving, prosperous or successful (though it's one of the tools that can lead to being thriving, prosperous and/or successful).  I does include the concept that Scouts carefully use property (I include equipment as property). 

 

Thrifty is a multifaceted concept, but the BSA uses payoing one's own way as the very first definition

[blw2]

yeah, the way I see it is that sometime a long time ago somebody was looking for a point in the law to help steer a scout to raise funds so.... since thrifty is really the only point that has anything directly to do with money, that's the meaning they twisted to work for them.

 

Thrifty, like the other points, is a character trait to strive for.... but in my understanding of the English language, it really does not have anything to do with paying your own way.

 

don't take my word for it:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/thrifty

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thrifty

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/thrifty

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/thrifty

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thrifty

http://www.yourdictionary.com/thrifty

[qwazse]

yeah, the way I see it is that sometime a long time ago somebody was looking for a point in the law to help steer a scout to raise funds so.... since thrifty is really the only point that has anything directly to do with money, that's the meaning they twisted to work for them.

...

I actually think it was the opposite. Soldiers in the royal army had to work their ticket back home from wherever in the empire they were deployed, So, the notion of "working to pay his own way" was part of the scouting mystique -- as opposed to an officer getting a wire transfer from his countess grandma for services to the crown. (Pardon my extreme revisionist history.)

 

So, boys had that sense of rugged individualism from early on in scouting. When things like Jamborees and other big-ticket adventures for youth came on the horizon, a balance was struck between an elite boy garnering his own funds and relying on his family, the troop, etc... for the larger portion of expenses.

[andysmom]

It seems to me that if a scout is going to "pay his own way" he is going to be thrifty, thrifty with the resource of money.

Our committee has suggested that the scouts plan and run their own fundraisers but when are they supposed to do that?  At troop meetings?  Our troop meetings are used for trainings, team building, planning for skits, campouts and the like.  When are they suppose to plan a fundraiser?  By all means the scouts should participate in fundraisers somehow, but planning them should be left to the adults IMO.

 

We have some adults who ask for donations form business to help run events or large expenses (car dealer sponsoring a pinewood derby for example, huge trophys given out, tee shirts for everyone, catering donated for blue and gold dinners)  it was suggested that the scribe write to businesses requesting grants to fund camping equipment.  I have no problem with donations but I have a problem with asking for them.  We had a donor purchase our troops trailer but the scouts were fundraising for it and a former scout donated the portion that the scouts did not raise, we also have a large company donate bottles and every 2 weeks they call us to come and collect the bottles.  My son and I go pick them up and take them to a redemption center.  We get about $1000 a year from that but we did not ask for it, they approached one of our parents asking if we would be interested.

What are thoughts about requesting donations?

[Stosh]

If a boy is expected to pay his own way, that means he can't be asking his parents for the money?  When I was a scout my parents bought my uniform and I paid for everything else.  That doesn't wash in today's society. 

 

No Boy Scout is asked to be a Popcorn Colonel..... but I have witnessed a very effective troop sale with a boy in charge. 

 

I don't care who pays for it, but if parents can't afford to cough up the money, then they better work with the boys to make sure they can cover the costs.  The only other option is to drop out of the program because it's too expensive and this is always a dynamic in play all the time.

 

I have seen boys show up at summer camp with $100+ in discretionary money from Mom and Dad.  I have also seen boys show up with $10 because that's all the family could afford.  That's $2/day for treats and nothing more.  Remember, discretionary money does not come out of any fund raising accounts.....

[T2Eagle]

 

What are thoughts about requesting donations?

I can't quote chapter and verse, but I believe soliciting cash donations without some good or service attached is a no go under the rules for unit fundraising.  

 

You can accept them when offered.  So if instead of buying popcorn I just give a $10 check to every kid who shows up at my house that's OK, likewise if someone tells you to keep the change, you can accept it as a donation.