Do we really need summer camps?

[SpEdScouter]

I have been thinking on this and I wonder if the attempt to keep up all the Boy Scout summer camps might be just a waste.

 

Why do we need summer camps anyways? I guess the answer is to give the boys an opportunity to meet other scouts and to earn merit badges. However really the scouts can earn merit badges thru other means like the weekend merit badge classes. Really my son has earned 4 badges in just 2 weekends. Just as many as he earns in 6 days at camp. I know some troops dont go back every year but rotate it with other outings like weeklong backpacking trips.

 

So could we live without them?

[qwazse]

Why? Fun.

Forget MBs, it's just plain fun to be someplace where hundreds of scouts file in for flags and campfires.

It's also nice to not drive far away for that experience.

 

 

The problem: with membership decline, you have to pull from a wider area to get the same numbers in each camp.

[Eagle94-A1]

@@SpEdScouter,

 

Why do we need summer camp? YES WE DO!

 

Do they need to be MB factories? No they do not.

 

What are some aspects about summer camp?

 

1. FUN

 

2. Place to apply Scouting for a week away from it all. One week at camp is worth a year of meetings.

 

3. Bonding with fellow Scouts in patrol and troop. This is a big one for new Scouts as you can read about in Phrogger's post and based upon my personal experience and observations.

 

4. Challenges Scouts need. As I mentioned, summer camp does not have to be a MB factory. But some camps do provide challenges that Scouts need via BSA Lifeguard, COPE, and other older scout programs. Also HA activities, i.e. backpacking, kayakaing, etc are ways for older challenge themselves. I vividly remember my canoe trip in the Canadian wilderness.

 

5. I don't have enough time to keep going on.

[Cambridgeskip]

Be careful what you wish for.

 

I don't know what it;s like in the USA but land prices and the cost of building in the UK are eye watering. Many of the scout owned campsites date from the early days of scouting when various philanthropists donated tracks of land. Those days are now gone.

 

Once these sites are sold off and gone they are pretty much gone for good.

 

My thought has always been that we as scouters are the custodians of such places on behalf of the young people that come to them and grow to love them. It's not our place to sell them off except in the most exceptional of circumstances.

[desertrat77]

Merit badges should be afterthoughts at summer camp.

 

Camp is about camaraderie...hiking...swimming...hanging around with friends, old and new, on the front porch of the trading post, drinking a root beer float...enjoying the evening campfire...the scent of pine...singing old songs while waiting for chow...finally getting getting the hang of paddling a canoe...or doing absolutely nothing at all, and not feeling the least bit guilty about it.

 

To me, the the one badge worth pursuing at any camp is the "progressive" patch...1st year, 2nd year, etc.   Even those are optional.

 

The boys should have one week of their life without a bunch of homework, requirements, and pushing from adults to do stuff.   Summer camp has devolved from a fun experience to one of sitting around on a log, listening to lectures, and then spending the evening doing homework at the picnic table.   That's a darn shame.

Edited September 9, 2016 by desertrat77

[perdidochas]

I have been thinking on this and I wonder if the attempt to keep up all the Boy Scout summer camps might be just a waste.

 

Why do we need summer camps anyways? I guess the answer is to give the boys an opportunity to meet other scouts and to earn merit badges. However really the scouts can earn merit badges thru other means like the weekend merit badge classes. Really my son has earned 4 badges in just 2 weekends. Just as many as he earns in 6 days at camp. I know some troops dont go back every year but rotate it with other outings like weeklong backpacking trips.

 

So could we live without them?

 

Summer camps are useful, as most can accommodate the tastes of most age scouts. First year scouts are mainly concerned with advancement.  Middle year scouts with merit badges. Older scouts with adventure. 

 

We could live without them, but I think they are useful. 

[Sentinel947]

Camps that are merit badge farms aren't terrible necessary. But the point of camp isn't to simply earn badges.

[Chisos]

I agree with what other have been saying--there should be more to summer camp than earning merit badges.  I'd really like it if there would be less "class times"--maybe slots for MB's in the morning, but none in the afternoons--save that for troop activities, free time, etc.

 

A big part of the problem is that some--or maybe many--equate "lots of merit badges" as "getting your money's worth" from summer camp.

[NJCubScouter]

Personally I think that some sort of "extended" annual Scouting experience is an essential part of being a Scout. That would be "regular" summer camp for the younger Scouts and then a choice of summer camp, high adventure, NYLT, Jamboree when applicable, or some other experience for the mid- to older Scouts.

Unfortunately, for many Scouts, and their parents and leaders, merit badges have become the focus of the summer camp experience. We have one 16-ish year old Scout who just spent one week at regular summer camp earning Eagle required merit badges and another week at our council's "Trail to Eagle camp" (basically a week of all provisional campers earning Eagle required merit badges, interspersed with sessions on how to do an Eagle project, etc.) Not exactly "Follow the Rugged Road" (a BSA slogan from "my day"), but on the other hand this kid is now on track to make Eagle whereas it is probably unlikely he would make it if he didn't spend the summer earning 6 or 7 required MB's. And part of the reason he wasn't on track before is that instead of going to the MB-focused camp the rest of our troop attends, the previous summer he had gone to Philmont and he had also gone to the last national Jamboree, so he felt he had to "make up" for the MB's he didn't earn those summers. So it probably wasn't a very good summer for him earning Communications and Emergency Prep and whatever else, but in the end, when he's an adult, he will have gone to Philmont, Jamboree, and probably will have earned Eagle too. And he actually knows his outdoor skills. That isn't too bad.

Edited September 9, 2016 by NJCubScouter

[thrifty]

I assume that most boyscout camps are open year round.  I'm sure that summer camp is when they make most of their money but our closest camp has events for cubs, Klondike, camporees, training, etc..   We are located in a suburb in the northeast.  We aren't far from nature but we can't just pack up and go rifle shooting in someone's backyard.  We need the camp for things like shooting and climbing while also letting the boys "be free" and not have to worry about what other campers at some public place might think.  I don't have very many memories of scouting but I do remember camp.  It was cool to see so many scouts at one time.  Wish our troop did more with other troops to emphasize that we are part of a larger whole.

 

Each boy scout camp has its own identity too.  Our troop has camped at several camps not in our area during the off season and its fun to see how each is unique.

Seems like the camps are not used to their full potential though.

 

With regards to summer camp merit badges, I agree with you.  My son has been to two different camps and at this point, I feel like camp merit badges are a joke. 

The camps don't have the proper equipment or enough counselors or the teenage counselors don't feel like making an effort, etc..  Wife and I are on the fence as to whether or not we send him to camp next year if he even wants to go.

 

With all due respect, I disagree with probably most of the people on this forum.  I do not view summer camp as some kind of vacation for my son.  Our troop has traditionally used summer camp to fulfill many of the T21 requirements.  Like it or not, it was expressed to us that without summer camp, it would be a long time for crossovers to achieve a lot of the requirements.  My wife and I encourage him to have new and rewarding experiences as much as he can in life but the hundreds of dollars for summer camp is different than $30 for a weekend camping trip.  I want him to have fun but I expect summer camp to teach him something for the $400 I pay them.  If I just wanted him to have a vacation, I'd put that $400 towards a family vacation (something we didn't have this year).  Yes, he could be earning the money himself and a scout should pay his own way.  But the reality is that if my twelve year old earned $400, we would be telling him to put it in the bank and save it for the future instead of spending it.  This may all sound kind of harsh, it isn't meant to be.  Last year he spent his free time at camp shooting.  So now he knows he likes to shoot so he took the Rifle merit badge this year.  Learning and fun at the same time.  If you can tell me where there is a free camp, I’ll let him go all summer and do whatever he wants.

 

I’m not sure I could identify a merit badge farm.  The two camps that he has been to had different methods but achieved the same goals.  A boy could theoretically earn 4 or 5 badges.  One camp had a class each day, the other camp had several classes each day but split them up throughout the day.  Some classes were longer or didn’t fit the exact schedule such as some Eagle classes or if there was an outpost.  I don’t remember the exact schedule but by late afternoon, everyone was on their own to do whatever they wanted.  Not sure why there be paperwork unless the scout didn’t prepare and do the prereq’s before coming.

[perdidochas]

Camps that are merit badge farms aren't terrible necessary. But the point of camp isn't to simply earn badges.

To me, the point of camp is to learn and do things that you can't do easily at home.  If you're lucky, that includes merit badges.

 

My sons learned to sail, white water canoe, climb, life guarding, etc. at summer camp. As SPLs during summer camp, they also learned how to herd cats.

Edited September 9, 2016 by perdidochas

[meyerc13]

I think we do need the camps, and it makes me sad every time I hear of one of the Boy Scout or Girl Scout camps being sold.  As Cambridgeskip pointed out, once these properties are sold, we are never going to get them back.  Even if we scrap the summer camp programs, our camps are still great places for a Troop or Pack to spend time.

 

What I think we could do a better job of is managing those properties.  Our Council recently sold one camp, and it was on the same lake as another Council's camp which was also for sale (that's another thing that makes little sense to me, a Council owning a camp outside of its boundaries, inside the territory of another Council... I'm sure this goes back a long way historically, but it just seems illogical to me).  Does it make any sense to have two different camps staffs from different councils managing adjoining properties?  I'd argue that it makes absolutely no sense.  Those two camps could have been combined into one larger camp.  I mean, honestly we are competing with ourselves when we have two camps that literally touch each other.  I know our camp was sold to a private party, I have no idea what happened to the other Council's camp.

[JasonG172]

My son (1st year) did TrailBlazer program and Swimming that's it.  Been in the Troop for a year and only worked on 1 Merit Badge and it isn't an Eagle Required either.  I have a leader that want to cramp merit badges down their throat. 

[SpEdScouter]

To me, the point of camp is to learn and do things that you can't do easily at home.  If you're lucky, that includes merit badges.

 

My sons learned to sail, white water canoe, climb, life guarding, etc. at summer camp. As SPLs during summer camp, they also learned how to herd cats.

That last line is funny. I know one troop that goes to Bartle and anyways none of the older scouts wanted to go down last summer where they would be expected to work with the younger scouts on trail to first class. The troop had to pay their way to get them to go.

 

And no wonder. 10 days where the days are spent watching over younger scouts and evenings with just sitting around isn't much fun.

[RememberSchiff]

That last line is funny. I know one troop that goes to Bartle and anyways none of the older scouts wanted to go down last summer where they would be expected to work with the younger scouts on trail to first class. The troop had to pay their way to get them to go.

 

And no wonder. 10 days where the days are spent watching over younger scouts and evenings with just sitting around isn't much fun.

 

If true, I am stunned.   Make some calls and send some e-mails to District about said troop. EagleDad excels at giving advice in this area.

 

I fear, you are seeing a distorted, broken Scouting program.