Returning Scout

[SMT376Richmond KY]

I have a new lad in our Troop who has realized, perhaps too late, that leaving Scouts was a mistake a couple of years ago. He will turn 17 in May and he tells me his goal is to complete Eagle. He said he was Life and had accumulated 41 MB's. Told him it would be a busy year to get it done but with hard work on his part that I would help him as much as possiable.

I contacted his previous Troop in another town same council. The new Scoutmaster of this Troop happens to have been my woodbadge counselor so we know each other well. Seems the old Troop records only indicate First Class and 3 MB's but this Scout was in the Troop prior to the SM's tenure. Checked with council registrar council records agree with old Troops. Fast forward to last weeks meeting when we had uniform inspection and I asked this lad where his MB sash was "I can't find it guess we lost it in the move."

I took the opportunity to sit and disucss MB cards and how with our have so many young Scouts seeing an older boy that has accumulated so many MB's might inspire them. He still said he have 41 so I told him there was some paperwork problems as his old Troop and council only show him have earned 3 MB's and that he was FC. He said it didn't surprise him that the old Troop was having problems when he left. I told him he needed to bring in his blue cards as proof for council otherwise to make Eagle from First Class in a year would be a very daunting task.

Fast forward to last nights meeting no blue cards and both his mother and he were insistant that he had earned the MB's and ranks. I told them both that without the documentation we can not prove the case that Council will not accept his or my word for it given the documentation to date.

 

Told that he just learned a valuable lesson about staying the course and keeping important papers safe in his future endevors. He said but I want to be a scoutmaster some day. I told him of the great multitudes on this forum of Life for lifers and Stars the were giving back some of what they have learned from Souting.

 

Any other ideas if he keeps insisting he earned these MB's and Ranks?

[OldGreyEagle]

In the abscence of any documentation, I have to say the boy is up against it. If he could prove 40 or 39 merit badges I might, might you understand give him the credit of a doubt on another one, but not on 41 when only three are documented. Such a number must have left him with a myriad of memories of counslors and activities, can he name any? Can any of them verify they know this guy? Can any MB counselor be found that can ID the Scout? Lastly, you can help, but it really up to him.

[evmori]

I agree with OGE (I made a rhyme!). If this kids earned 41 merit badges I think someone other than him & his mom would know that. And the council and his old Troop should have a record of this.

 

Is it possible a neighboring council has the records?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[SMT376Richmond KY]

OGE I was initially the same the he could possiably lost a few cards. I mean I had 38MB's and only had a few cards after my mom threw out my Scout stuff while I was in the Navy. I didn't think about the counselor angle though thanks. Em neighboring Council is highly unlikely as the nearest is about 60 miles East of us and at the time he was in from his home was about 100. However, I'll bring these up to the lad.

[EagleInKY]

MB Counselors, Former Scoutmaster, Former ASMs, Former Advancement Chair.... he'll need to find someone who can substantiate his claim. OGE's thought about granting him 1 or 2 if he had 40 is very valid. But granting him 30++, I don't think so.

[Fat Old Guy]

This story sounds very familiar. Did someone post a similar story here about a Scout with unsubstantiated advancement? Or did I read that on rec.scouts.usa?

 

In any case, without documentation you don't have a choice. Sounds like he might be trying to run a scam. He and mom are hoping that he can get Eagle at the 11th hour without doing the work.

[acco40]

If he keeps insisting ...

 

1) Don't question his honesty. There is nothing to be gained in that.

 

2) You've told him about the need for valid documentation. Ask him how you can aid in his search for valid documentation.

 

That puts the ball in his court and he will soon realize that a) if he has earned the MBs he has a willing partner to aid him in his documentation search; b) if he is not telling the truth, his SM is not going to aid in the perpetuation of that lie. Either way, you are presenting a good role model as a SM.

 

 

[evmori]

acco40,

Excellent advice! Top notch! Atta boy!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[KoreaScouter]

Ditto to Acco40, with a little spin of my own:

 

- There's a good reason why Blue Cards are in three parts -- this is it.

 

- Even if the Scout finds his sash, and it has all the badges he claims, I still wouldn't use it alone to determine if he earned them. A TroopMaster IHR (he may still be archived if he was inactive), a ScoutNet printout from previous Council, etc., can substantiate his claim.

 

- What's his handbook show?

 

- Get the former District's MB Counselor list. Ask the Scout for the name one of the "disputed" MBs. Run down the list of counselors, and ask him which one was his. Contact the counselor him and find out if he's still got his copy of the blue card -- they're supposed to hang onto them for 7 years, right? Now, some of the counselors may no longer be on the list, or he may not remember some, particularly if they were at summer camp or a roundup or something. So, he may not bat 1.000, but he shouldn't bat 0.000 either. As a side note, this also makes a strong argument for ensuring all your MB counselors are registered with BSA, doesn't it?

 

- Does the former Troop retain their copies of the blue cards? Ask them if the Troop Advancement chair will sift through the pile to pull his out (his cards, that is).

 

Never underestimate the willingness of some people to do something underhanded to get what they want. For most of us, we mean what we say when we repeat the Oath/Law. For some, it's just words. I had a similar situation in my last Troop with a transfer Scout, deathbed Eagle situation, two older brothers were Eagles, dad insisting he would be, too, claimed he started his project in his last District, no evidence of it, no workbook, etc. That one is in my "Top 3" for Creepy Adult Behavior.

 

This one may very well make yours.

 

Good luck.

 

KS

[Shell in WA- USA]

Explain to the boy that without documentation, National will not approve his rank advancement to Eagle. So the above advise is good. Tell him that you support him and will help in any way possible to straighten this out, but first he needs to find his "proof" of achievements so that "we" can present it to the former troop to record or to the council to record.

 

Suggest to the boy that right now he is showing as a 1st class scout with 3 MB's. If he can't find his blue cards, he needs to contact old MBC, Advancement Chair, SM, etc or else National won't recognize them because their "official" records show different. And if he can't find his cards, doing the minimum MBs to acheive the Eagle rank isn't impossible to do in one year but it's going to take some hard and fast work. But if he's already done them, maybe he has his old paperwork when he worked on his badges and it should be fast and easy with a new MBC.

 

But it's the rank that's going to be harder to catch up without finding the records. If he's first class now, the tenure for the other ranks will be a challenge. (I don't know the timing you're working with.)

 

And tell him that even if he can't get his eagle rank, you still want him to stay with the troop. He could advance further but he would be of great help to the rest of the troop with his knowledge of Scouting.

 

I'm the Advancement Chair for our troop. It's because of these stories that I have stressed on the boys to keep ALL their records in a good place. Most seem to use a notebook some use a shoe box, but at least it's all in one place! I've even encouraged the boys to keep in the notebook all their working papers. If there is EVER a question about what they claim, they can even show the work they did on the MBs or rank.

 

But in your case, basically all you can do is support the boy and encourage him to find the paperwork. Don't doubt his honesty on your end. If he's being honest, he'll find a way. If he's not, you've still taught him a good lesson. And if he sticked to it with or without the eagle rank, he'll still benefit from scouting by coming back. That in itself could be beneficial to the rest of the troop if he's willing to share his story.

[NWScouter]

Unless there was a fire in his old council's office, his old Council should have kept copies of advancement forms for about 8 yrs or more. He should be able to go there and get copies of those with his name on them (he might have to spend some time going through them to find them).

[Shell in WA- USA]

NWScouter;

 

Only if the Troop and Advancement Chair recorded the advancement properly. I just took over from an advancement Chair of 5 years, he haphazardly recorded through council. Good thingI thought to check, the boys are now all current and with proper record with Council.

 

But yes, that's a place to start, see what they have first, then go tot he Troop records, then to the individual resources like MBC, ASM, SM, Scouts own records, etc.

[Senior_Patrol_Leader_T15]

Number one thing....Check his handbook. If he doesn't have signatures on Star and Life, then either he isn't what he claims, or he wasn't proud enough of the award to get it signed off, or either he was too lazy to.

 

And second, he only needs 18 more merit badges to go right? And he's done 41 out of a needed 21, right? THen tell him to redo them. The ones that have no time limits should be done in less than 3 days for someone who has already done all of the requirements, right? And for those that do, he should get thru with them without a moments delay past the time limit for someone who should know exactly how thing are done, right?

 

And, then ask him why he want to achieve the Eagle Scout rank. From that answer you know if he has really earned those other ranks and awards, trust me, I know why I want to achieve it and other Eagle Scouts wanteded to.

 

Also, this just popped in, if he is a Life Scout, then he should have the Eagle Scout Project Workbook, or could have told you what kind of porject he wanted to do.

 

Oh yea, heres another, ask scouts from old troop if he earned these, never forget the scouts.

[Proud Eagle]

I have heard stories that would suggest that something like this is possible.

 

All it would take is one very badly run troop.

 

Council may have never been sent the advancement reports on those 41 merit badges, they may have simply awarded them in-house for whatever reason. It is also possible that the troop didn't even make a record of those badges if they weren't reported to council. There is also the possibility that the troop records were damaged (my own troop had a problem with water getting into the filing cabinet with the troop records in it).

 

The troop may not have been using registered counciler's, so that could be another problem.

 

The Scout Handbook is not a certain way of verifying something either, it could be forged, or it could have easily been lost in a move. If there is a signed handbook, contact one of the persons who signed it to verify that it is not faked.

 

If he doesn't have blue cards, find out if he has the cards that are given out when a badge is awarded. This isn't quite as solid as a complete blue card, but it just might do.

 

These sort of things can be straightened out. When I was finishing up things for my Eagle, the district advancement chair forwarded a copy of my records from council to me for review. I discovered there were several things missing. However, the only important things were a few merit badges. If memory serves me, one was found in troop records, one I had a blue card from, and another the only record was the card presented when it was awarded.

[scoutldr]

Yes, this is an example of how a scout can suffer if the adults are not properly trained or do not take their jobs seriously. One good suggestion is that as soon as a scout makes Life, give him a copy of his Troopmaster record (or whatever the troop is using) and let him go to Council and ask the registrar to bounce that record against the Scoutnet record. If they don't match, he needs to find out why and start actions to rectify. If he waits until he's 17 and a half, it may be too late. One thing I agree with here...it's not the current SM's problem. This is a problem that the scout needs to unravel. HE is the one who needs to track down former leaders, MB counsellors, etc. and assemble the documentation. If he has to depend on Mom or other adults to lead him around by the hand or do it for him, he's not Eagle material, regardless of how many merit badges he thinks he's earned.