Proud Eagle Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I just happened to be skimming over the Guide to Safe Scouting available on-line. I noticed three potential violations of the guide to safe Scouting. Two of these violations are related to things at either do happen at Philmont, or are at least advertised as happening. The other is council related. At Philmont they claim (meaning the published literature, at least in 2001) to have ranges that allow Scouts to shoot 30 caliber rifles. (.30-06 if I remember correctly) Yet Scouts may only use .22 rifles. At Philmont, the water purification method uses the "cupful" measurement, while the G2SS specifically warns against such imprecise measures, and instead says that measures should be by the drop. My home council normally includes the Cub Scout packs at the Camporree. I know that more than just the Webelos attend, and I know some of the Cubs stay overnight. Yet Appendix B makes it pretty clear that isn't age appropriate. I certainly don't claim to be the foremost expert on the G2SS, but it certainly seems that it would be best if National and Council activities lead the way in setting the example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Keep in mind that the G2SS is written for unit leaders and unit activities. See the opening statement of the manual. You are correct that Cubs and Wbelos are not to camp with scout troops at camporees. This is a fairly recent rule and unfortunately not all councils are in compliance to date. The water purification is not a violation because it is not a policy. G2SS policies are easily identifiable because they appear in bold type in the text of the G2SS. The drop method is a best paractices recommendation. The majority of water on Philmont treks, as I understand it, is purified through the use of back packing filtration systems not through chlorine purification. The use of 30-06 rifles have historical significance in heriatage of Philmont. Philmont is not by any stretch of the imagination your typical camp. Few if any council scout camps have the huge expanse of uninhabited land to allow for a range large enough to allow for the use of a rifle of this caliber. the 30-06 is also consider to be the largest round that an average shooter can use without discomfort, and all scout required shooting range safety practices are strictly enforced. If you are truly concerned about the safety practices being used by your local council or national you should make those concerns known to the proper divisions of the BSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 To my knowledge, Webelos dens/patrols are allowed to camp with Boy Scout troops, as guests, on outings that are not camp-o-rees. I understand that during patrol competitions of any sort, Webelos and Boy Scout patrols should not directly compete against each other. However, can anyone tell me the logic that was used to come up with the Webelos ban on camping with Boy Scout troops during camp-o-rees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 We have held camporees and the Cubs have had a camporee at the same camp. The Cubs was a one day event on Saturday. One of their stations is usually visiting one of the Troop campsites. Works out well. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I know it is against the rules and I have not questioned the powers that be about it, but our district camporee is a major recruiting tool for transition. Troops are encouraged to invite Webelos dens to camp with them at camporee and just about every troop does. The Webelos sleep with their parents, but are assigned to a patrol and help cook, do KP and participate in the events with the patrols. It is highly successful and is even being extended to Bears now. I personally think that is pushing the envelope a little. In fact, I think it should be limited to Webelos II's. The bad news is it is against the G2SS. The good news is that our den had 100% crossover to Boy Scouts. The district also does a Webelos Woods campout in the fall that pairs troops with Webelos dens. It follows the basic camporee format with competitive activites run by the scouts for the Webelos. Both events offer the Webelos a real taste of Boy Scouts and allows them to get a feel for the personality of a troop to see if they are a good fit for each other. Without it, I don't think the transition numbers would be nearly as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I have to agree with Bob White regarding the 30-06. It is one of the most common and most-often-used chamberings in this country. In addition, I think giving the boys an opportunity to safely fire such a weapon will instill a greater realization that these things are really dangerous and must be handled with respect, something easier to instill with a large caliber than by using BB guns or 22s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Wow! I didn't even realize the exception about Camporees. Is this new to the 2003 G2SS? I don't understand it either, it's a great recruiting opportunity. I wonder, do Klondike Derbies fit this rule as well? Our district doesn't do a Camporee every year, but almost always does a Klondike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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