Please help?!

[Ankylus]

OK, my $.02.

 

First, I may be wrong, but I infer that you are acting pretty emotionally here, and that is not unreasonable. But, if so, just stop it. It won't help you and it will get in the way of a good resolution.

 

Second, the pack is not the pack number. Nor is it the CO. It is the people who lead it, who support it, and who are members of it. Don't get so attached to the pack number that it clouds everything else. The boys surely won't care what their pack number is, they just want to have fun with their friends.

 

Third, have you talked to the other parents in the pack? How do they feel about all this? Would they be willing to start up yet another pack? If they are not going to support you in your decision or the implementation of it, there's really not much use, is there?

 

Fourth, and most importantly, you have to ask yourself how badly do you want this pack number at this CO?  Think rationally, not emotionally. What price, both metaphorically and literally, are you willing to pay to keep this pack number at this CO? Because that will absolutely frame what possible actions are real options.

 

If you want to stay with this pack number with this CO, you have a very long row to hoe. Someone mentioned an approach based on the politics of the Lutheran church. I know nothing about that and therefore offer no comment. Someone else mentioned working it through the BSA. I have nothing to add or detract from that. But realize either way it is going to take time, patience, and effort in large quantities for either approach and they won't save you on the next recharter. And, even if you succeed, do you really want to stay at this CO in the face of the resulting hostility? I mean, it could get bad enough that the CO refuses to charter anybody in the future and then you are still looking for a new home.

 

Fifth, you might consult an attorney to see  whether the pastor has defamed you or the other members of the pack leadership. But be forewarned of three things. The first is that the pastor might indeed be working on some sort of information--which in itself may be false and defamatory--of which you are unaware. If so, that information will become very public, very quickly, in a way you won't be able to control. There is no telling how that will come out for you and your reputation long term. The second is that even if the pastor is making up things out of whole cloth, how can you ever really be made whole again? Have you lost any money? Have the allegations interfered with your enjoyment of life in some measurable way? The third is that this is the kind of situation where nobody wins except the lawyers. You are unlikely to prove any significant damages and  your attorney will want to be paid. Still, you may feel that the principle of the thing is worth those risks.

 

Sixth, I am in general agreement with what seems to be the consensus of the board here. Just find a new CO, get a new pack number, and move your people to the new pack. The current pack won't last long if everyone moves and leaves nobody at the old one, especially if there aren't any parents left willing to take over all the work.

 

I am sorry that I don't have more to offer in the way of an actual solution. But I think these observations are cogent and will help you choose a solution. IMHO, anyway. Best of luck to you and the people of your pack.

[NJCubScouter]

@@NJCubScouter, give me a break.

I gave you a break by not deleting or redacting your post, this time.

[frankpalazzi]

@@Beavah,

.... but creating speculation of wrong doing towards a child in any way, shape or form from an innocent party is very damaging and I won't allow you to do it to good people.

 

 

@@Cubmaster35 Beavah never said anything about wrongdoing toward a child. Those are your words, not his.  Read his post again, please.

 

@@NJCubScouter I'm very surprised you did not pick up on that and fell into the trap.

 

Let's keep in mind that National BSA can declare a volunteer ineligible for membership for any felony.

 

Chartered Organizations can reject applicants for any reason or no reason at all, if they so choose.

Edited August 16, 2016 by frankpalazzi

[NJCubScouter]

@@Cubmaster35 Beavah never said anything about wrongdoing toward a child. Those are your words, not his.  Read his post again, please.

 

@@NJCubScouter I'm very surprised you did not pick up on that and fell into the trap.

Someone else said that. I never said that. I never thought that. I fell into no trap. I read Beavah's post very carefully, and reacted to exactly what he said, and my reaction has not changed.

Edited August 16, 2016 by NJCubScouter

[NJCubScouter]

So, ok, to be fair: Cubmaster35, you should not accuse Beavah of saying something even worse than what he actually said.

 

Nobody can say I'm not evenhanded.

[vumbi]

Wow, it's almost as if this isn't I&P! (sarcasm)

Can't you guys discuss anything without getting mad at each other?

[JoeBob]

Can't you guys discuss anything without getting mad at each other?

 

Where's the fun in that?

 

BTW: Beavah won.

[Cubmaster35]

I have edited this post. Your comment against another forum member is out of line. This is the only warning I will give.

 

You are free to explain your situation. You are not free to verbally assault another forum member.

 

Sentinel947

Edited August 18, 2016 by Sentinel947

[Cubmaster35]

@@frankpalazzi.....any felony????? Where the hell has this conversation gone? How dare you. So let's take one nasty assumption/allegation/suggestion and replace it with something equally disturbing.

 

NONE OF OUR LEADERS HAVE DONE ANYTHING WRONG LEGALLY OR NON!.......AS STATED BY BSA.

[Cubmaster35]

@@Beavah, our district has gone through 4 DE's in the last 2 years. All young, no training. Only 1 had ever participated in scouting, he has moved to Arizona. The rest have been 'floaters' 'helpers' as we do not truley have a DE, much less an acting 'floater' that knows what to do or all the rules and regs. One DE, very young, no children, no scouting experience, fresh out of school accepted the job and quit a month after. So you can see now how we have no answers and or resolution unless we push for something ourselves.

 

 

And a BIG FYI for your big headed unnecessary comments..... to permanently remove leadership from a pack IS common as the CO can do whatever they want at any time. So please, STOP the speculations. At this point you are no better than the Pastor who is choosing to defame the innocent with immediate damaging words, which cause question from bystanders, and leave the accusted to defend themselves. Right now you are no better than the hateful human who couldn't get his way, so he exuded rumors about a stranger. Please find something more productive to do with your life.

[qwazse]

The +1 was for your observation of DEs. Your dismissiveness of Beav ... Well you're behaving just like that pastor, wanting to remove rather than engage aren't you? You're more than welcome to dig the hole deeper. But I strongly suggest that if you want fruitful ideas, act on any reasonable suggestions and ignore unreasonable ones.

 

Now, DE's may be young, but they are not unsupervised. Have you called him? I can't imagine him being unwilling to find a new CO for you. The job practically gets payed by the new unit. If not him, there may be his director of field service and certainly will be the scout executive.

 

As @@Stosh mentioned, the pastor should not be acting unilaterally, although he may be doing so contrary to his profession. Have you actually talked with the executive officer and charter organization representative?

[Ankylus]

Now, DE's may be young, but they are not unsupervised. Have you called him? I can't imagine him being unwilling to find a new CO for you. The job practically gets payed by the new unit. If not him, there may be his director of field service and certainly will be the scout executive.

 

In our District, the DEs are under a lot of pressure to start new units. They would be thrilled to see such an easy opportunity to score an easy tally for their metrics.

[Ankylus]

OK, so reading your further postings, I have more to add.

 

You definitely are reacting emotionally. I understand that. It is reasonable. But it is not helping you or the other people of the pack any. And getting offended by what strangers on Internet whom you have never met have to say isn't helpful.

 

You still haven't decided how badly you want this pack number and this CO. Some good suggestions have been raised, and you seem to be dismissing all of them as "that won't work" or some variant. If that is true, then find a new CO and found a new pack. (Look at it this way...you can get two "Founder" patches...that's pretty rare.) If that is not true, then quit flailing about and start working at it.

 

I still think it would be much easier on all involved if you just move on. Sometimes unfair and unfortunate things happen in life. Teach your cubs about that part of life where you just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and continue on.

 

Your choices aren't changing a whole lot. The school year is starting if it hasn't started yet. Time to make a decision and act.

 

I would also note that you are casting aspersions on the pastor's character when you allege he is just interested in the money. That is, you are doing exactly what you accuse him of doing. You might think about that a little bit.

[Cubmaster35]

@@Ankylus, there is no need for us to keep a charter with this particular CO what so ever.

 

And accusations are not part of my daily routine. This Pastor has done it to many before. Business and small group alike.

[Cubmaster35]

Unfortunately the ultimate hurt from us all is the question as to 'why' would any person who wants nothing to do with a scouting group, just not let them go with all their belongings and funds? Why go through so much trouble to squander less than $50.00 and sell off camping/fishing gear donated to the pack of boys that could not experience the outdoors without it?

 

The boys have worked so hard for everything they have.