Guide to Safe Scouting

[Stosh]

Been part of literature for over 10 years.   Just new to you.     Some tragic background, well before my time if you want to understand why.    http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/face/stateface/or/03or020.html  

 

It is obvious that these boys hadn't been trained, were in over their head, did not load the gun properly and were an accident waiting to happen.  I have had a few dozen cups of coffee around the campfire with the artillery boys to know the danger of what happened and I can almost guarantee I know why the gun exploded.  Someone had plugged the barrel to get more bang for the buck.  Every blackpowder shooter and even modern rifle shooter knows that if something plugs the barrel will cause the breech to explode.  We hear it all the time when a hunter stumbles, plugs the end of the barrel with a bit of dirt and when fires, the gun ruptures. 

 

This is why our artillery in the reenactment world are fully trained and certified before operating the guns.

 

I remember as a kid having flag ceremonies at camp with a guy with a cannon. I remember he pounded pieces of wood in the barrel to make it louder.  When fired, we could hear the pieces tearing through the woods.  Knowing what I now know about this stuff, I can see why BSA banned it.  In the hands of idiots, it's dangerous.  Otherwise if done correctly, it is totally safe and quite impressive.

[Beavah]

  Knowing what I now know about this stuff, I can see why BSA banned it.  In the hands of idiots, it's dangerous.  Otherwise if done correctly, it is totally safe and quite impressive.

 

Yah, but if we ban everything that isn't safe in da hands of idiots, what's left?

 

Besides, when yeh make things idiot-proof, Nature just develops a better idiot.

 

Beavah

[TAHAWK]

So no prohibited activities or items?

[Eagle94-A1]

Two BSA publications on wilderness survival, The Complete Wilderness Training Manual, 2d. ed. rev. (DK Publishing, 2007)  and The Survival Handbook,  Essential Skills for Outdoor Adventure, suggest carrying short swords.

 

Boys' Life in June, 2008, and June, 2016 specifically advocate shortish sheath knives.

 

 It's the bubble problem yet again.  Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

 

I thought

The Complete Wilderness Training Manual, 2d. ed. rev. (DK Publishing, 2007)   suggested a kukri?

 

I typically carry a Ontario RD-7 and my son carries a Becker BK-9 when we go backpacking.  The cool factor more than compensates for the extra weight.

 

I so want a BK-21!

[meyerc13]

One of my instructors at Philmont is a history teacher who once upon a time was a member of a living history Explorer post, re-enacting Civil War battles.  What she did back then would no longer be allowed today.  I can understand why we wouldn't want the average Scout firing cannons, but a blanket ban prohibits even trained, certified, older Venturers/Explorers from safely doing an activity. 

 

I wonder what some of our ancestors would have said if they see how we overprotect our children today.  Some of those ancestors, at the same age as our Boy Scouts, likely fought in the Civil War - firing cannons while enemy cannons were firing at them.  But we need to "Think of the Children!!"  Part of me worries how long it will be before Rifles, Shotguns, and Archery are banned, quickly to be followed by knives and campfires.  I know a large percentage of parents flip out about us allowing Scouts to do these activities, so how long before that vocal group leads to more restrictions and bans?

[fred johnson]

Yah, but if we ban everything that isn't safe in da hands of idiots, what's left?

 

Besides, when yeh make things idiot-proof, Nature just develops a better idiot.

 

Beavah

 

Yeah, but I've camped at scout camps.  Safety of guest scouts is emphasized.  Safety of staffers is often ignored with a wink and a grin ... in the name of promoting fun for the campers.  Staffers standing on unstable benches and tables causing falls from significant height.  Clearing out brush causing many staffers to catch lymes disease.  Staffers generally doing stupid stuff to be the cool staffer. 

 

"Nature just developers a better idiot." ... and then they come back the next year as the favorite camp staff.

Edited August 10, 2016 by fred johnson

[TAHAWK]

I thought

The Complete Wilderness Training Manual, 2d. ed. rev. (DK Publishing, 2007)   suggested a kukri?

 

 

I so want a BK-21!

Absolutely.  Khukuri (three syllables): the short sword carried by the Ghurkas (various spellings, but not Bhurka as Word suggests).  So it did not violate the G2SS advice against "large sheath knives, being a short sword carried in a leather-covered wood scabbard.     

[Stosh]

In the reenacting world there are a few written rules and a whole lot of unwritten rules.  Big bore artillery have written rules as do veterinarian health certification for horses and mules.  Infantry has a ton of unwritten rules.  Those that can't follow the unwritten rules are asked never to come back to the event ever again.  

 

Safety was of prime importance and idiots were weeded out immediately.

 

National reenactment doing Gettysburg in Pennsylvania.  I was captain of the company of Venturing Crew reenactors.  We moved forward along with thousands of others in a single battleline.  I was struck in the chest with a Wonder Wad from a confederate pistol.  Wonder Wads are outlawed in reenactIng.  I ordered my company to stop, do an about face and kneel.  The Major came riding up and yelled why I had left a hole in the line. I called out Wonder Wad and he said, As you were captain, and rode off.  No questions asked, if a confederate unit was loading with wonder wads, no infantry was to move forward on them.  I was lucky to get hit in heavy wool clothing because it would have been a different story had it be in the face.

 

The effect attempted for the paying public was disrupted because of a few idiots in the ranks.  The spot on the line was identified and the confederate command notified.  I'm sure the unit was packed up and out of there by night fall.

 

There was no written policy anywhere about loading with Wonder Wads, but everyone knew how to enforce any infraction of the practice.  BSA could be doing the same thing.  Instead of drawing attention to sheath knives being banned, maybe a better approach would be to deal more severely with ALL knife safety issues, not just the sheath knives.  I wore my knife and drew it only when needed.  Maybe that's why no one had a problem with it.

[John-in-KC]

An awesome update has been published for your reading pleasure.  

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/toc.aspx

 

Enjoy,

 

RichardB

 

 

@@RichardB,

 

There is information in the health and medical section that looks like it belong strictly in a "Guide for the Council Surgeon" or in National Camp Standards.

 

Go here http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss05.aspx

 

Scroll down to protection considerations.  That paragraph looks like it points entirely to professional health care providers serving on pay or volunteer status at our camps, not leaders in units who would be dealing with an emergency in real time.

 

I also question the utility of the section on membership and participation guidelines for people with communicable diseases.  Might that not better be in a membership/joining set of documents, and in COR training?

[John-in-KC]

Stosh,

 

WRT to the artillery, I suspect the short version is:  Legal counsel have said NWIH.  Thus, for Scouting, it is non-negotiably off the table.

 

I've seen military service weapon inbore explosions and their aftermath.  Then again, I was paid to be an artilleryman.  Banana peeled 203mm howitzer tubes are ...

 

If a re-enactor wants to do it, it's on his organization liability policy.  Scouting?  They've laid it out.  if that wasn't a Scouting incident, it was enough for the General Counsel to give "directive in nature" guidance.

[RichardB]

 

Scroll down to protection considerations.  That paragraph looks like it points entirely to professional health care providers serving on pay or volunteer status at our camps, not leaders in units who would be dealing with an emergency in real time.

 

I also question the utility of the section on membership and participation guidelines for people with communicable diseases.  Might that not better be in a membership/joining set of documents, and in COR training?

 

Anyone providing first aid (including our youth and leaders) should protect themselves from blood or body fluids.  It's a real risk to such things as HIV, Hepatitis and even things like Zika.   In addition, there are legal concerns for staff (which may be volunteers or paid) including lifeguards who need extra training and education including compliance.   BTW this is not a new section, been around long before 2007.    

 

We chose to include it here.  An addition a couple of years ago if I remember correctly.   Generally, both staff and volunteers who have questions find it in the GTSS vs. on the web.    Answer enough questions about it that it is a concern and it really lays out how to "have a plan" to deal with local questions that arise.   

 

Hope that helps.  

[Stosh]

Yep, a kid barfed in the mess hall (speaks well for the quality of food) and the staff got out the mop bucket and cleaned it up.  No special biohazard steps taken.  In schools if something like this happens the hazmat team shows up.

 

Kid gets cut?  gloves, eye protection, face shield?  Nope, just wash it off and  put a bandaid on and don' worry about it.

 

Whereas the medical world sees things from one perspective, the world sees it differently.  BSA is totally blind to the situation and sees nothing.

[Tampa Turtle]

Cannons and Large-Bore Artillery

Units are not authorized, under any circumstances, to use a cannon or any other large-bore artillery device.

 

 

That tears it... I QUIT!!!   

 

 

Shhh we still have Trebuchets...

[Stosh]

Yep, a kid barfed in the mess hall (speaks well for the quality of food) and the staff got out the mop bucket and cleaned it up.  No special biohazard steps taken.  In schools if something like this happens the hazmat team shows up.

 

Kid gets cut?  gloves, eye protection, face shield?  Nope, just wash it off and  put a bandaid on and don' worry about it.

 

Whereas the medical world sees things from one perspective, the world sees it differently.  BSA is totally blind to the situation and sees nothing.

 

Care to comment or just ding the post for whatever reason?

 

In the world of business, if someone so much as scratches themselves on a staple, they must report it, have it evaluated/treated and any surfaces that were involve need to be sanitized.  Yes, I did that and I had to find the exact staple in the file cabinet that I was scratched on before returning to work.

 

I do believe that is the same process for biohazard fluids in schools as well.

 

I have observed BSA camp staff at one of "BSA's premiere camps" using a mop and bucket to clean up biohazard material with no protection on their persons.

 

That deserves a ding?  One should be reading this and notifying their councils of the importance of keeping up with such matters especially in the G2SS publications as they affect the units.  Corporate biohazard documents make G2SS look pretty sad when it comes to protecting their members in situations like this.

 

I was not allowed to work in the safety department of the corporation I worked for unless I had all the immunizations and followed extensive protocol just to put a bandaid on some poor bloke who poked himself putting up stuff on the bulletin board. 

 

Blood, vomit, body waste, saliva are all treated the same as if it were a chemical spill of some sort in the non-BSA world. 

 

There's a whole litany of diseases, some quite serious that are floating around and the HIPAA rulings means no one has to disclose any of that on their medical form to let you know what those issues are. 

 

And according to G2SS there is the issue of medical biohazard, but the mess hall cleanup was not considered a medical issue when in fact it was.  Shall we talk about the biohazard issue connected to the latrines?  G2SS does not address it at all.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Stosh

[Eagle94-A1]

Absolutely.  Khukuri (three syllables): the short sword carried by the Ghurkas (various spellings, but not Bhurka as Word suggests).  So it did not violate the G2SS advice against "large sheath knives, being a short sword carried in a leather-covered wood scabbard.     

 

This is the  one I want!

 

http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/228