Chaplain's aid prayer policy

[LilSisKin]

I have a scout who is running for Chaplain's aid this month but he is stating that he needs to say "In the name of Jesus Christ, amen" at the end of each prayer.  I know that guidelines state the prayer should be faith neutral but I wanted to get your take on if we should be allowing him to say this at the end of his prayer's or if we should have him run for a different leadership position within the troop instead.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

First of all, Lilsiskin, welcome to the forum!

 

Second of all, oh boy. You will probably get a variety of views on this here.

 

For now, I will just ask a question, that some might think is irrelevant:

 

Are there Scouts in the troop who are not Christian?

 

(As a matter of full disclosure, I am not Christian myself.)

Edited July 28, 2016 by NJCubScouter

[jr56]

I wouldn't get all bent out of shape over it.   There are others out there who probably would though.

[T2Eagle]

My view is that it first depends on what your CO is, and what they would think about it.  My CO is a Catholic Church, virtually all of our religious actions are squarely within the RC tradition.  We have non catholics and one or two non Christian scouts, and we let them opt out of anything religious that we do in any way that they want to.

 

I'm not sure which guideline you're referring to, if you can find it I would look closely at when it applies.  Something that applies to say camp or outside of troop activities may not apply within the troop.

 

If you're not in a religious CO, or if your CO doesn't have or want to have some input in this, I think the real issue you need to look out for is that, especially if you have non Christian scouts, if the scout uses this phrase then whatever reaction, affirmation, silence, etc. that it evokes has to be given as much protection as the scout's desire to use the phrase.

 

One thing that may be worth discussing with the scout, and probably his parents, is that he needs to understand that Christianity, and even the forms of Christianity, are not universal, and that using a prayer specific to a religion can be fine, but that by definition will be excluding some of his fellow scouts from the prayer.  Is that a good thing?  

[Stosh]

Welcome to the forum!  Great question.

 

First of all I don't know the set-up you have in your unit, but CA's in my unit just volunteer for the position.  They don't "run" for it like they would an office.  But if your setup is part of an election, the boy needs to have everyone who's voting be aware of this matter and let them decide whether or not they want him as CA.

 

You as an adult leader then don't get caught up in the middle of it and if everything goes south, you're not implicated. 

 

Maybe the boys don't really care one way or the other.

 

If the boy wishes to tone it down to a more universal prayer, in order to get elected, then he has that choice as well.  If he can't he just may take himself out of the running and that's okay too.

[T2Eagle]

 

I wouldn't get all bent out of shape over it.   There are others out there who probably would though.

 

I'm Catholic in a Catholic sponsored troop.  I stopped going to vespers at out summer camp because it was unabashedly a Christian service and I didn't think that was appropriate given the inevitability that there were non Christians who were asked to or even made to attend the service without it being clearly labeled as Christian.  I don't mind attending services of other faiths, but I need it to be completely voluntary and well described up front.

[Stosh]

It might be interesting to ask the boy if he even knows what the phrase, "in the Name of Jesus we pray." really means.    I'm almost certain he doesn't.

[meyerc13]

I'm a Lutheran, attended Lutheran schools from K-12.  Growing up my Pack and Troop were chartered by our church, and most members of the Pack and Troop were members of the church.  Back then, it never felt awkward asking everyone to join in a prayer.

 

However, religion was something we studied in our Lutheran High School, and not just our own religion.  I think this was the first time that I became sensitive to those with a differing religious viewpoint.  Our school felt that we should be Lutherans not because our parents or pastor told us to, but because we chose to be - and we couldn't make an informed choice without understanding that there are other options out there, and understanding how what they believed differs from what we believed.

 

As a Scouter, my Pack was charted by the Kiwanis, but pulled from Public Schools.  I've seen Lutherans, Catholics, Methodists, Universal Unitarians, even Wiccans.  I don't think my old Pack and Troop were doing anything wrong - if you are chartered by a Church, and the majority of your members come from that Church, I don't think anyone who joins the unit should be offended if the prayers are centered around the faith of that church.

 

With that said, I struggled with how to inoffensively incorporate reverence into my public school Pack.  In an effort not to offend anyone, it was often easier to incorporate a moment of silent reflection than it was to say a prayer that could offend one of our members.

 

Thinking this through now, and with the understanding that Boy Scouts are the age I was when my Lutheran High School had me learning more about other faiths, I wonder if mixed faith units couldn't incorporate peer sharing about one's own faith and customs with the other Scouts as their means of being reverent.  Rather than attending a Christian chapel service, have a boy share what it means to him to be a Universal Unitarian, or a Wiccan, or a Catholic.  Have a frank discussion amongst the boys on whether they would be offended if someone from a different religion led the prayer?  I personally can witness someone practicing their religion without feeling like I am pressured to join in or be part of it.  I find it educational.  Maybe that's the way we can handle this?  I think we might all learn that we have more in common than we think, and also learn how to be respectful of other's beliefs and viewpoints. 

[Eagledad]

We solve this situation by encouraging scouts of different faiths to lead a service so the troop could observe different faith worships. It was an opportunity for growth.

 

Our services are mostly canned, so most songs are faith neutral and the sermon is usually focused on the Oath and Law. So really the prayer is the only part of the service that has much of a faith based tone. Because the different different services seemed pretty much the same, dominating faith concerns quickly became a nonissue. 

 

Barry

Edited July 28, 2016 by Eagledad

[Tampa Turtle]

In order Troop adults might encourage an ecumenical tone but if the Chaplain's Aide goes a little one way we leave it up to the PLC. In one case it was brought up at the PLC and a Jewish scout and a Hindu scout got slipped into the rotation and discussed their faiths to the Troop and their prayer. It was the boys solution and a good one. We are sponsored by a  Methodist Church so if an occasional 'JC' gets in there well that is part of the package.

 

Years ago after 911 we had are lone Muslim scout speak to the boys about how hard it was sometimes with all the terrorist jokes. Most of the kids relented and his patrol worked around his dietary issues. (He and a Orthodox Jewish kid often planned meals together on backpacking trips)

 

I would be more concerned if the CA was pushing 'his' version hard amongst the boys and telling them theirs was wrong. We had that happen as well. 

[David CO]

I've always assumed that the Chaplain's Aide takes his cue from the Chaplain.

[Stosh]

And how many units have chaplains?

[NJCubScouter]

Our troop has never had a chaplain or a chaplain's aide as far as I know.

 

Here is the official BSA "job description" for both positions:  http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/ChaplainRole.aspx

For chaplain's aide they use the word "selected", not "elected", leading me to believe that this is one of the positions that is appointed by the SPL with the approval of the SM.

 

As my original question suggests, I think the answer to the question depends a lot on the religious composition of the troop, and the nature of the CO is also a factor.

 

Stosh's comment suggests that the phrase in question means something other than what it seems to mean at face value.  Perhaps the Scout does not know the "real meaning."  (I certainly don't.)  But it doesn't really matter, does it?  He has been taught, presumably by his religious leader and his parents, that all prayers must have that phrase.  I don't think it is any leader's place to question that.  What I do think is that if this young man had been a member of either of the troops I was a member of as a youth (one was probably about 40% Jewish, the other probably about 60% Jewish), he probably would not have been the best choice for chaplain's aide, if he believes that a prayer must contain the phrase in question.  He is probably a great kid, and as others have said, he could be given an opportunity to be part of a "rotation" of leading prayers.  But him leading all the prayers probably isn't a good idea unless it is a 100% Christian troop. 

Edited July 28, 2016 by NJCubScouter

[T2Eagle]

All of the troops I've been involved with have had a religious CO, Churches both Protestant and Catholic, plus a Knights of Columbus, and I've never seen a formal adult position of Chaplain.

 

I figured the name of the POR was somewhat anachronistic, maybe an artifact from some point, would have had to have been prior to the late 60s, when Chaplains were a common unit feature.

[SSScout]

Chaplain Aide is a youth position.  If there is a named (adult) Chaplain, then the CA does that, he "aids".  Usually, the CA is not elected, but is "given the chance" by the SM. As in most clerical positions, one should have a "leading".   I would never tell a Scout "YOU are going to be the CA."   ( It is not unusual for a Troop to not have one). Such appointments are rarely successful.  Elections?  "All right, who wants to run for SPL?   Any nominations?"   Compare with  "OKAY, who wants to run for Chaplain's Aide?  Any one feel so led?"

I cannot fathom having an election for CA.  That assumes the position can be "chosen", but , as with good clergy (as opposed to not good? Another discussion), the person can be trained, and will benefit from the training,  but how they perform their duties is another thing.  A church/temple/mosque might  decide to "hire" one person over another as their spiritual leader  ,but that's just it, they will be paying them for that service.  The CA is a VOLUNTEER.  If he is not spiritually led to BE the CA, nothing like an election will make it so.

All that being said,  the CA has , as his "flock", the boys of the Troop. If the Troop is all of one faith, do what is appropriate. No problem.  If it is of mixed faiths,  He must realize, as Catholic Father Mulcahey in MASH comes to realize, that his  faith , well founded and firm as it is, may not fit another person, and so  his performance  must be adjusted accordingly. 

 

It almost sounds like (could be wrong here),  the SM may have some ulterior motive in setting something like this up.

 

And too,  praying "in the name of Jesus"  is fine with me.  I need all the help I can get.   "Salaam Aleichem"  is okay, as is the   "birkat kohanim".  
If yours is a "boy led" Troop, usually the boys are more attune to these vagaries than us poor set in our ways adults.   If it were me , I (as SM) might appoint the interested lads, each,   as CA for a period of time and see what threshes out.  Or, maybe let the "candidates" form an interested committee and let them discuss  it.     See the Chaplaincy Facebook Page for more discussion:    https://www.facebook.com/groups/103580129706482/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/103580129706482/

 

See you on the trail!