Adults At It Again

[Eagle94-A1]

So, I posted the plan for tomorrow that the Scouts came up with, editing out that they are doing the lesson and making it appear that I am doing instead. One of the adults sent me some suggestions. What I find funny is that A) I've been doing and teaching canoeing for over 25 years,  and the plan the Scouts posted is 95% what I would do normally, and they think my 5% suggestion makes sense and are going to add it. B) Last time we planned for 2 meetings in the water, something came up and it ended up being 1, and C) Part of the "lecturing" is being done while the canoes are being unloaded by the older Scouts, which is in the plan.

 

Maybe some folks just cannot stand not being in control?

[Ankylus]

Seems to me that part of the problem here started way back some months ago--you got yourself an SPL who is not interested in the job and happy to let the adults take over. 

 

The problem here lies in the selection process for SPL. You say he only took the job because he felt obligated in light of his nomination. So who nominated him? If he nominated himself, then that's a problem. But I am willing to bet an adult nominated him.

 

One way to address this is to let the scouts self-nominate. If a scout wants a high level job, let him throw his own hat in the ring. Make him put together a "scouting resume" with his qualifications and goals. Discuss those things with him, let  him get some skin in the game.  Of course, you may have a situation where no scout wants the job. Then you may have to resort to this kind of thing. But we put a strong emphasis on scouts having to seek out their own PORs that seems to translate into more senior positions as well. We still get slackers sometimes, but I think it helps weed out the slackers.

[Eagle94-A1]

Actually he was nominated by one scout, and seconded by another. No self nomination or adult nominations allowed.

 

I think part of the problem is that whatever plans the Scouts do make, adults interfere. They get frustrated to the point of 'Why bother?"  It's interesting in that while chatting with the SPL and another Scout about the meeting I'm "in charge of" and letting them come up with stuff to do, there was a vitality in the chat I have not seen in them for some time.

 

My job tonite is to keep the adults out of the way. Gunship is making suggestions to improve the meeting, and I have a feeling I will need to ring him in. Especially for part of the night. Instead of usual "do this, do that, ..." instruction on familiarizing with canoes, they guys plan on doing some games. It will be organized chaos, that I hope A) will allow them to work on skills and B) have FUN, and C) Show the adults that you need to let the Scout do their thing.

[Hedgehog]

Maybe some folks just cannot stand not being in control?

 

 

 

Gunship is making suggestions to improve the meeting, 

 

 

I think you answered your own question.  Good luck tonight.  You might need to bring donuts to go along with the coffee.

[Eagle94-A1]

Interesting night, Talked to the incoming SM about he need for an adult meeting to go over the problem of adults interfering.

 

I'm on beer #2.

[Eagle94-A1]

Had an interesting conversation with the wife about this. One suggestion she offered that I hadn't thought of is that since it's the Older Scouts who are doing a lot of the complaining and being bored, and since the CO does want to start a Venturing Crew, and since they have been trying to get the wife  to be involved with the new crew, is that I start the Venturing crew and by the time it's fully underway, oldet will be able to join.

 

I just cannot handle the adults treating the Scouts like Cubs.

[Eagle94-A1]

Update. It's been confirmed we are getting a new SM, and it's the heir apparent. He's been ''neutral'' seeing both sides of the factions. He's in the process of arranging ALL registered adults, committee and direct contact, to have a sitdown meeting in the next 3 weeks and iron things out. Formal change will be at next COH.

 

Going to be interesting.

[qwazse]

Had an interesting conversation with the wife about this. One suggestion she offered that I hadn't thought of is that since it's the Older Scouts who are doing a lot of the complaining and being bored, and since the CO does want to start a Venturing Crew, and since they have been trying to get the wife  to be involved with the new crew, is that I start the Venturing crew and by the time it's fully underway, oldet will be able to join.

 

I just cannot handle the adults treating the Scouts like Cubs.

Okay let me camly explain this with all due respect to Mrs. E94 ...

DO NOT EVEN ENTERTAIN STARTING A CREW UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I've posted reasons elsewhere. But it boils down to a big case of no-matter-where-you-go-there-you are.

 

If another couple of adults want to make that happen, give them the DE's number and ask to stay out of it.

[Eagle94-A1]

I'm waiting to find out what's going on, and it's all up to my boys as to what they want to do. With new leadership comes new vision. Plus Gunship made the comment about leaving after July, and also that he wants to help get the troop that has had some problems out. Now that troop meets on the same nite as us.

 

SWMBO was a Venturing leader once upon a time, is into camping and backpacking, and really wants the crew started. When she was asked to be an AA once before, she almost lept at the opportunity, but had family issues and  couldn't.

 

Me personally, I want top start a Sea Scout ship.

[Eagle94-A1]

Update.

 

The adults, minus the CC/COR and the IH, met.   Definite changes are headed our way, as well as some of the same.

 

Changes I like include

 

PLC meeting monthly for a "long" meeting and 15 minutes before each meeting.

 

Scouts run the meetings and doing more instructing. Also Interpatrol Activities will be incorporated.

 

Adults quit reforming the troop and keeping the current patrols, with adding new members to existing patrols; no more NSPs.

 

PLC members responsible for meeting the Scouts' advancement.

 

BORs scheduled for every month AND no more multiple Scouts having a BOR.

 

Same Old Same Old: 

 

Adults will be assigned to work with patrols. I told them I disagree with it because it's too easy to to turn it back into Cub Scouts. But majority said they are not ready to work 100% alone. Eventually

 

While PLC members can say the Scout has met requirements, Scouts cannot sign off on them still,. only an adult.

 

Changes I disagree with:  Before having an SMC, Scouts will be retested by the ASM assignd to their patrol to make sure they are proficient in the skills. Which begs the question: If adults are the only ones signing off, why the need for testing before an SMC?

[Eagle94-A1]

Two things I forgot to mention above. Regarding youth signing off on advancement there were two reasons given, both by two adults affected by this apparently.: PLs signing off their buddies for the heck of it and PLs "punishing" Scouts they do not like.  From what I am being told, the Scouts in the troop back in the day signed off on their buddies even if they had not mastered the skill and Pls woudl refuse to sign folks off who had mastered the skill. Also the youth on BORs, this was in the 1972 - 1989 time frame when youth were allowed on BORs, would fail those Scouts who they thought were not ready or out of pettiness. One adult mentioned how he failed 3 youth run Tenderfoot BORs, and only when he went before adults the 4th time did he earn Tenderfoot.

 

 

Second item was the patrol method. Someone asked if I'm such a big proponent of the patrol method, then why am I against national's current set up of NSP, Regular Patrol, Venture Patrol?  had to remind them that A) every unit can adapt elements of BSA's program to meet their needs, i.e. LDS units having 11 years olds in a separate patrol, limited # of campouts, etc; and B) From 1910 to 1989 there was no such thing as a NSP, unless you were in one of the experimental patrols or LDS, and that originally it was only mixed-aged patrols. Needs for older scouts were recognized so Sea Scouts, Explorer patrols, venture crews/patrols had come about over the years. Only since 1989 and Operation First Class has the concept of an NSP with a TG and ASM assigned to them have been around. Adult tried to say I was wrong about the TG and that the NSP worked only with an ASM. I asked can we get the book out to see who is right. Then he backed down.

 

On a personal note, I think the troop is taking a step in the right direction. But I also think the adults restraining the troop from being a full blown Scout run troop won't be leaving anytime soon. But I'm hoping discussion and compromise can occur. The Scouts themselves have so much potential.

[Sentinel947]

@@Eagle94-A1 ... You're description says your view is the ASMs and troop is setup to fail.  

 

IMHO, I'd recommend de-scoping expectations and look for smaller successes.  Perhaps, the success was getting the scouts out on the AT, hiking and stretching the limits and capabilities.  As things improve, you can introduce the next thing.  

 

IMHO, knowing the end vision is great.  Knowing how it's to work is great.  ... but when it comes to reality ... troops need to continually re-adjust to the mix of scouts and adults ... and continually look for the next way to improve.   Don't sweat the troop is not perfect.  Just always look for what can we do better.  And, have fun.

 

This. I've learned that my troop is never going to achieve my Rockwellian ideals. Thats ok. Each meeting and outing should be filled with little victories. I've learned to live with what irks me.

[Eagle94-A1]

Yes, I gotta learn to live with what irks me, and the "negative waves" of some folks. I gotta remember to not let the "negative waves" bring me down.

[SSScout]

"Always wid' da negative waves, Moriarty...."   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU

[Eagle94-A1]

Yep we got a Moriarty in the troop