Towing and safety

[RichardB]

In case you hadn't seen this for use at your next gathering, includes a trailer section.  

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/632-006_WB.pdf

 

RichardB

 

PS:  publication actually suggests using media articles of incidents as a reference.  

 

PSS:  Lives in state with 85 mph speed limits, there are design standards for such things.  

[Stosh]

Towing trailers is not part of any driving instruction anywhere.  It is a skill acquired after the license is issued.  I have been around camping trailers, utility trailers, boat trailers all my life and have come to the realization that there are a ton of information out there that describes the differences between towing and non-towing activities.  RichardB's article points out many, but does not cover the finer details that pertain to weight and stopping/accelerating issues, turning radii, backing, etc.

 

One doesn't need a last-minute lesson when one has a carload of boys in their vehicle.  Just their presence can add and additional 500# of weight to a normal vehicle situation.  Add a trailer and gear and now one has a serious issue.  Stopping maybe an extra ton or two of inertia that the vehicle's brakes were never designed to do?  Good luck with that.  Add a cross-wind and any minor slight over corrections can throw side weight on a vehicle suspension system never designed to handle.  Did you know that when passed by a semi, the air flow between you and him can have a tremendous amount of influence if you're pulling a trailer.  Even the owner manuals of a non-trailering pickup truck will state that a loaded pickup handles far less than an empty one.  Ever wonder why people up north have sandbags in the back of their pickups in the winter?

 

Just getting into a vehicle and heading down the road requires (as qwazse mentions) getting one's head in the game.  If you've never pulled a trailer in your life behind your vehicle, please don't start with a load of boys tagging along.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Stosh

[scoutldr]

So, the lawyer advocates breaking the law while transporting Scouts, as long as everyone else does it too?  I'll see how that argument holds up in court.

[Stosh]

But if the lawyer knows a good lawyer everything will be just fine.

[Beavah]

So, the lawyer advocates breaking the law while transporting Scouts, as long as everyone else does it too?  I'll see how that argument holds up in court.

 

I reckon it depends on whether yeh care about doin' what's safest and best for the kids and for other drivers, or whether yeh care about "what holds up in court".     Courts are places we resolve disputes, eh?  Better if yeh avoid disputes in da first place.

 

I totally agree with @@Stosh, eh?  Towing a trailer is somethin' that requires experience... especially a well-loaded scout trailer goin' to camp with a bunch of kids in the car.  Experience with trailers generally, and some experience with your own vehicle and that trailer.   It's not somethin' yeh can learn from readin' @@RichardB's Risk Zone documents, nor is it somethin' that da "law" will help yeh with.  

 

So don't worry about the law, worry about bein' intelligent and responsible.  

 

One of the other places where we do a bad job helpin' people understand da real risks is with distractions while driving.   We get whacky about cell phone use, both in our Scoutin' documents and in regulation, mostly because it's new and we like writin' rules that affect young people but not old people.    Fact is, the number one cause of accidents from distracted driving is talking with other people in the car.   Drivin' while angry or upset is also way up there.   So is dealin' with kid behaviors in a car.  

 

Texting or usin' your phone is comparatively less of a hazard, no worse a distraction than tuning your radio, or lookin' at a map for directions.  We should understand that all these things introduce short periods of inattention (and longer periods if yeh aren't familiar with the device).  They should all be approached thoughtfully, eh?  Not necessarily prohibited because that gets silly and impractical, but they should be minimized, eh? Especially for da inexperienced or when there's more mental load on da driver.

 

That's why I like usin' older lads ridin' shotgun to take the load off the driver, eh?  Gives the driver a more alert/mature conversation partner, too, and someone who can monitor driver fatigue.  That adds a lot more real-world safety than lectures on da Risk Zone.  Plus helps teach the lads for when they're drivin' on their own. 

 

Beavah

[meyerc13]

Thanks for the document @@RichardB.  Too bad this stuff is so hard to find on the Scouting.org website.  I have to agree with Stosh though, while it is good that the document talks about trailers, it barely scratches the surface.  In fact, some of the information given might actually make towing the trailer more dangerous.  While it is generally good to load the heaviest items over the axles, blindly following that advice isn't a good idea.  Too much tongue weight is bad, but too little can be just as bad.  With the load shifted too far to the rear of the trailer, the tongue weight can be too low resulting in the trailer actually lifting up the back of the tow vehicle.  Generally this isn't enough lift for the rear tires to leave the ground, but it can be enough lift to impact the handling of the tow vehicle.

 

I tow a pop-up camper, and without the battery and propane tanks on the tongue I'll experience a bit of porpoising, with the back end of the truck bouncing up and down due to trailer weight being unbalanced.  On a clear dry day, that isn't necessarily a huge problem, but if it is a rear wheel drive vehicle (like most trucks and SUVs are when they're aren't in four wheel drive) on a day with slippery road conditions this could be enough to cause a problem.

 

Also, as Stosh pointed out the weight of the trailer, its contents, the passengers, and the tow vehicle contents can be a problem many don't fully understand.  I wouldn't be surprised if most Troop trailers are exceeding their weight capacity.  When you add in lumber for shelves, cast iron dutch ovens, heavy tarps, water... the weight can go up very quickly.  As for the tow vehicles, while a full size SUV or Truck can probably handle the weight of the trailer, passengers, and cargo - most Small and Mid size SUVs and vans can't.  Many people don't understand the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating, the maximum capacity of their receiver, ball, etc.  My wife's mini-van has plenty of horse power to tow a trailer, but if you do the math it can't pull much of one.  Why not?  Because the transmission, suspension, and brakes aren't up to the task.  People focus on the pulling power, and forget that even though the engine might be able to accelerate while pulling the load, it doesn't mean the rest of the vehicle's systems are up to the task.  The 'towing package' for a vehicles isn't just the hitch and wiring, it usually includes a transmission cooler, beefier suspension, and better brakes.

 

I think this gives me a great idea for a roundtable big rock topic.  I suspect a lot of Scouters could learn a bit from an experienced tower.

Edited July 26, 2016 by meyerc13

[RichardB]

I guess too hard is relative, but agree this makes an excellent roundtable discussion.   

 

You can also find some simple tips in the Guide to Safe Scouting:  http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss11.aspx#b 

[blw2]

yeah, I had similar thoughts on towing as the OP, after our summer camp trip.  The scouter towing our double axle covered trailer went along pretty fast in my opinion.  I never looked, but I'll bet safely he was over the speed rating of those trailer tires.  He's an experienced tower, and had a solid tow vehicle, and the tires were new, but it was loaded heavy to some unknown weight and it was fast.

It did cross my mind that I'm not so sure I'd want my son in there with him.... especially on the way home after he was good and tired.  He had done a lot of driving that week..... (side trips that are another story)

[Stosh]

At what point should we speak up?  Safety is #1 in my troop and it doesn't apply to just the boys.

[Beavah]

At what point should we speak up?  Safety is #1 in my troop and it doesn't apply to just the boys.

 

Yah, if we make Safety #1 then I reckon we'd never go into the woods, eh?  Certainly we'd never drive there. 

 

All things in balance.  Might be that if we want better trailer safety we should stop carryin' lots of heavy gear into the field, eh?  Just, you know, go campin' and not glampin'.   And for goodness sake, have a fresh set of drivers come for camp pickup.  Six nights at scout camp can be a sleep-deprivation experiment. 

 

I don't see any upside in confrontin' other parent drivers or backseat driving from the car that's a half-mile back.  Leastways, not beyond "Hey, Joe, how are yeh doin'?  Are yeh good for this next stretch or should we get some coffee?"  Much more than that and you'll just make people mad, and drivers who are angry are at least as dangerous as those textin' away on their phones.  It's counterproductive.  Get where you're goin', and if yeh really have a safety concern about someone's driving ability then quietly drop 'em from the pool of drivers yeh use in the future.

 

Beavah

[Stosh]

Statistically speaking after all the work our society has done to make playgrounds safer for our children, it has accomplished great things in terms of safety.  However, getting to the playgrounds is just as dangerous as it has always been.  The park is the "box" and everyone forgot to think outside the "box".

 

So what's the solution? focus outside the box!  Do the due diligence of safety in areas of risk.  Pulling a trailer is risky, so do we have personnel with the experience to do it?  A Driver's License is not experience.  Is the person going to comply with the law?  BSA policies? are they Trustworthy like the Scouts are supposed to be?

 

Yes, there will be risks, but through proper training and "being prepared", one can minimize the risks along the way.

[blw2]

......

 

All things in balance.  Might be that if we want better trailer safety we should stop carryin' lots of heavy gear into the field, eh?  Just, you know, go campin' and not glampin'.   And for goodness sake, have a fresh set of drivers come for camp pickup.  Six nights at scout camp can be a sleep-deprivation experiment. 

....

I'm with you on that!

 

I'd love to see all troop campouts oriented more like a backpacking trip.  Perhaps not all the way there, but keeping it basic and simple.Maybe treat them more like a canoe trip with regards to the stuff you take.  It would certainly make prepping for a real backpacking trek more "natural"!

[Eagledad]

Ever since we converted to a backpacking troop, the only time are trailer is more than a 3rd full is traveling to summer camp. Even then it is mostly personal gear.

 

Not only do we use only drivers with experience in towing trailers, our Quartermasters are trained as well in proper weight distribution and packing of the contents in the trailer, and hitching the trailer to the towing vehicle. The troop does not let the trailer leave the parking lot without the QM or someone trained by the QM because he has the keys and knowledge of proper use.

 

Barry

[Tampa Turtle]

'All things in balance". Especially for trailer loading.

[Eagledad]

I also agree with Beaver about controlling distractions. We require all vehicle with more than four scouts include another adult who can deal with the distractions (scouts) while the driver stays focused on the road. For long trips, we always plan stops every two hours give everyone a break and to switch drivers.

 

I'm not a fan of caravanning for some of the obvious reasons, but we do like at least two or three cars to travel within sight of each other in case a driver has mechanical problems or become ill. 

 

Barry