Out of the mouths of young men....sigh

[desertrat77]

If he hates being in the unit, due to the emotional stress caused by his Scoutmaster - someone who, as SPL, he needs to work closely with - why should he stay?

 

You're basically advocating that someone stay in an abusive relationship and just "work it out".

 

Mr. Bob, you said it best.

[Eagle94-A1]

SM holds on to all blue cards until the scout eagle's and THEN, if he can find them gives them to the scout. Because my son had most of his merit badges done before this troop, SM only lost 3 eagle blue cards and two others on him. Instead of waiting, son went back to MBC to get another blue card signed. This troop is high maintenance to say the least. Ughhhhhh.

 

I know the blue cards have a section for the Scout to keep as a record, so I don't understand why the SM holds onto all of them until he is an Eagle. Glad he got the MBCs to sign a second card.

 

Question, can your son get a copy of his SCOUTNET records from the council? I'd be more concerned about that since if the SM loses bluecards, is the records getting turned in to council? And even then, I know for a fact that sometimes councils will lose, misplace, or even use the wrong date the rank and/or MB was earned in the records.  Took  a month AFTER my EBOR for council to fix my records as they had the date they were inputted into their system (preSCOUTNET) instead of the date actually earned.

[Hedgehog]

SPL just turned 15 the 6th of this month. 3.5gpa, basketball, football, wonderful kid. Very quirky when it comes to friends. Only has 3 or 4 really good friends. Nails chewed down .

I am super proud of this kid, he has worked very hard to "fit" in.

Will be a sophomore next year.

If he does have to join a new troop, my advice would be for him to be active in the Troop for six months before asking for an Eagle SMC. That will give the SM a chance to get to know the boy and will help alleviate any concerns about Troop hopping. Having the SM be able to vouch for the boy at an EBOR makes a big difference. Your son has time. If he goes to a new Troop encourage him to act like an Eagle remembering that Eagle is not just another rank but something that becomes part of who you are.

[qwazse]

Six months? One week at camp is all I need.

Heck, a morning fishing or five miles hiking with the boys gives me nearly all I need to know about each one.

[Stosh]

Yeah, 6 months is a bit much.  If the work is done and all he needs is signatures, one could clarify the whole situation with a coffee/hot chocolate "SMC"

 

Seriously?  Every time this boy approaches the SM for a SMC and gets shut down, THAT IS HIS SMC.  The SM doesn't want to "take care of his boys" and is showing serious breaches of Oath and Law.  Granted, the SM might be busy and such, but he can work with the boy to arrange a meeting where they can get the details worked out.

 

New troop, new SM, new look on life and scouting in a Oath/Law based troop.

[Tampa Turtle]

Get your documents in order, find a new troop, and get out. Understand it will be hard to walk away but yes different Troops have different cultures. My troop would be happy to have a Life Scout who had been an SPL even if he didn't grab a leadership position right off. Most Troops needs that kind of guy.

 

Holding on to the Blue Cards sounds like a power trip move by the SM. As for the rest, this is Boy Scouts not the US Marines. Most of the time it is supposed to be fun.

[zuzy]

Thanks Guys.....yes, son will be moving on.  And yes all troops have their own cultures, this one rather blindsided son.  Can't really tell much about a troop in just a couple of visits before joining.  But this time, hubby has already been able to meet other troops through his UC position and kind of knows that SMs already.

 

Stosh and Tampa Turtle, you hit the nail on the head, both counts.  SM needs to be seriously worked with and reminded of the scout oath and law.

[Hedgehog]

Six months? One week at camp is all I need.

Heck, a morning fishing or five miles hiking with the boys gives me nearly all I need to know about each one.

 

 

Yeah, 6 months is a bit much.  If the work is done and all he needs is signatures, one could clarify the whole situation with a coffee/hot chocolate "SMC"

 

Seriously?  Every time this boy approaches the SM for a SMC and gets shut down, THAT IS HIS SMC.  The SM doesn't want to "take care of his boys" and is showing serious breaches of Oath and Law.  Granted, the SM might be busy and such, but he can work with the boy to arrange a meeting where they can get the details worked out.

 

New troop, new SM, new look on life and scouting in a Oath/Law based troop.

 

 

Yes, we can get to know the boy pretty quickly but I think that having the boy willing to spend 6 months with a new Troop before asking for an Eagle SMC dispells any concerns about his intentions.  It conveys that he is in Scouting for the right reasons and not just in a rush to get his Eagle.  It conveys that he is mature and can wait to earn that rank rather than being focused on rocketing to Eagle to get it off his checklist.  It also gives him time to develop an attachment to the Troop rather than just being perceived as using the Troop to get Eagle.  My sense would be different if he was 17 and 10 months, but he just turned 15.  He has time.

 

I can also see how that will help him at his Eagle BOR.  "When I joined the troop, I wanted to spend six months with the Troop to get to know the guys before I asked for an Eagle SMC.  I felt it was important to truly be part of the Troop before I became one of the Eagles from the Troop.  I wanted to show everyone in the Troop that I truly deserved to be an Eagle and wanted to demonstrate my appreciation for the Troop accepting me by being "helpful" for that six months."

[qwazse]

... I can also see how that will help him at his Eagle BOR.  "When I joined the troop, I wanted to spend six months with the Troop to get to know the guys before I asked for an Eagle SMC.  I felt it was important to truly be part of the Troop before I became one of the Eagles from the Troop.  I wanted to show everyone in the Troop that I truly deserved to be an Eagle and wanted to demonstrate my appreciation for the Troop accepting me by being "helpful" for that six months."

I can also see it backfiring. A committee member might ask, "So you felt that our troop wouldn't think you deserved to be Eagle when your transferred. What did we do to make you think we'd be so unfriendly? Why not at least try to have that SMC on your first campout? Did our SM seem unapproachable? Wouldn't a real Eagle jump at the opportunity to have a conference with his new SM about his experiences on the advancement trail?"

[MrBob]

"Wouldn't a real Eagle jump at the opportunity to have a conference with his new SM about his experiences on the advancement trail?"

 

"Are you saying I'm not a real Eagle?  Perhaps I've proved my point."

Edited July 21, 2016 by MrBob

[Hedgehog]

I can also see it backfiring. A committee member might ask, "So you felt that our troop wouldn't think you deserved to be Eagle when your transferred. What did we do to make you think we'd be so unfriendly? Why not at least try to have that SMC on your first campout? Did our SM seem unapproachable? Wouldn't a real Eagle jump at the opportunity to have a conference with his new SM about his experiences on the advancement trail?"

The answer is communication. Talk to new SM and ask what his expectations would be and then listen to the answer. Essentially ask what do you think is the best way for me to become part of the Troop and advance to Eagle as a member of the troop? Most scouters love to be given a chance to express their opinions.

[Stosh]

My first "reaction" to a situation like this would be his plans for the future beyond getting his Eagle.  If the troop was going to be just an expediency to Eagle and that's the end of the story, I would suggest another troop that might be more of the eagle mill, keep score kind of troop.  If he is interested in a scouting experience and this is just another step that he is having trouble with, then we can keep the discussion going. 

 

The #1 answer that would sell me right off would be.  "What do you plan on doing after getting the Eagle Rank?" and he answers.  "Well, I'm going to be a newbie in this troop, so maybe if the spot is open I could be the TG for the other newbies coming in from Cubs next spring."  SOLD, sign on the dotted line!  My best TG was an Eagle.  The new guys adored him and he had a great time with them.

[qwazse]

The answer is communication. Talk to new SM and ask what his expectations would be and then listen to the answer. Essentially ask what do you think is the best way for me to become part of the Troop and advance to Eagle as a member of the troop? Most scouters love to be given a chance to express their opinions.

To be clear: in either BoR scenario I would expect the boy to be approved. I just don't see one being more comfortable than the other.

 

That's a why conference with the SM soon after transfer would be in order. The boy could make clear that if the SM doesn't want the conference to be completed on that day, he'd be okay with it. But in the case of Zuzyson, with sports season looming that may be kicking the can quite a few months down the road.

 

In context, maybe the best thing he can do in a troop of crossovers, is talk to his coaches or his fellow athletes and see if they can set up a clinic in the gym to help new scouts with fitness requirements.

Or if he transfers to a unit without that many cross-overs, for fits and giggles, set up an athletics MB class. Maybe even invite his troop to be color-guard at one of his team's events.

 

There has to be a way to make this fun for the boy and good for the new troop at the same time.

[zuzy]

Truth is that he has has such a crummy experience with this troop. He was just going to hang it up after his COH.

 

But, if he can find a fun troop he originally wanted to stay in and earn palms, until he wad 17 as long g as he could do his sports.

[TAHAWK]

No, not at all. Council got wind that they don't even have COHS and only elect once a year in January. So council told them to start doing elections biyearly. Hubby is unit commissioner. They are not pleased with hubby and seems like son is paying for it.

Accepting what you say as true, It sounds like a mess to get away fro,

 

I do want to address one issue.  Council has no authority to tell a troop when it holds elections.  It is expressly provided that, "Rank and age requirements to be a senior patrol leader are determined by each troop, as is the schedule of elections."   Not saying it didn't happen, but  I have never heard of a Council attempting to tell a unit when to hold an election.