how are your first years advancing?

[Tampa Turtle]

Whitlin Chit not exactly same as Totin Chit what with that Ax thing. In my experience most boys need the refresher.

[Stosh]

Pretty sure you can't count things you do in Cub Scouts for Boy Scouts. That was a pretty creative and sloppy interpretation IMHO.

 

It was cleared by the Scout Executive of our council.  One of the boys was son to the Council Field Director who made the suggestion in the first place. 

 

Everyone of the boys that came in under those circumstances Eagled.  Now it's an issue for NESA to deal with.

 

 

Whitlin Chit not exactly same as Totin Chit what with that Ax thing. In my experience most boys need the refresher.

 

The Whittlin' Chit is earned as a Bear and reviewed under AOL requirements.  It is again revisited when the boy is to explain the safety issues of a pocket knife under the Scout requirements (#5).  The Totin' Chit is earned as a TenderFoot.(#3d).

[Eagle94-A1]

Regarding AOL and Scout and Tenderfoot Rank. At one time a Cub Scout who earned AOL could automatically get Scout, and his time requirements for Tenderfoot was waived. That was noted in the BSHB of the time, and I was one of those new Scouts who had it applied.

[Stosh]

The reference we went by with my boys was noted in the Webelos handbook.

[meschen]

Scouts bridged in late May. We've got 6 out of 7 their Scout rank. The last one has one knot tying requirement open. I "dumped" the Cyberchip on the parents along with the rest of the youth protection requirement we've always told the Scouts to do at home.

 

Most of the new Scout have been on at least a couple of camp outs, plus 5 attended summer camp. With a bit of luck, we should get the majority their tenderfoot at our September court of honor. Looking at the new first class requirements, we're going to be lucky if we get any of the to first class in their first year.

[bsaggcmom]

One thing to remember is that this year's crossovers finished the old Webelos program and the new Scout requirements are very similar to the new Webelos program AoL. We had 3 crossovers this year 2 very well prepared by their den leaders, one not so much. The one that isn't so prepared came from a den where the leader didn't heed the roundtable advice to add to the AoL requirements from the old blue book. The 2 that have completed Scout and came in well prepared came from a den that did the new Scouting Adventure pin in addition to the old AoL requirements.

 

Maybe next year's crossovers will be in a better place after completing the new Webelos and AoL programs. I hope so we're expecting 12 boys next winter.

[Zaphod]

I am not seeing that getting the Scout rank is as simple as some are suggesting. My son did the new AoL program and the old Webelos program so that might be one problem. Here is where he is struggling:

 

3b. Become familiar with your patrol name, emblem, flag, and yell. Explain how these items create patrol spirit. (They formed a new patrol just before my son crossed over and they haven't picked these things yet... the patrol is even listed in Scoutbook as TBD)

4a. Show how to tie a square knot, two half-hitches, and a taut-line hitch. Explain how each knot is used. (My son learned these as a Bear but doesn't remember them... use it or lose it kind of thing. He is also very uncoordinated so this is just something he needs to practice but doesn't get much of a chance to)

6b. Cyber Chip #4 Teach your Troop or another Patrol about Internet safety rules and appropriate online behavior using Mini Activities of your choosing. (This Troop is very active and none of the other boys need this. Even though they mean to let him do this, they keep running out of time because planning for the next event always takes precedence.)

 

Typing this up, I am realizing this isn't necessarily a problem with the program as it is the Troop's organization. I am wondering though how do you all, as leaders, balance making sure program requirements get met when the boys clearly have no interest in getting some things done? At what point do you step in and give them a deadline? Take the Patrol name, flag, and yell for example. The boys just don't care that they don't have one and even though I have seen the SM and another ASM mention it in meetings, they simply don't get around to doing it. And it's not like the boys are just irresponsible and messing around... they always have something else going on that's more important and time sensitive. 

 

As parents, how long do you wait before speaking up? As a Cub parent, I would just step up and offer to lead a portion of a den meeting and organize whatever activity he was needing (this was usually only necessary to finish electives that my son was working on alone). I get that's not how Scouts works, but how does it work then? I just keep telling my son, "You got to speak up for yourself and talk to your patrol leader." But he says he is... what more can I do to encourage him and help him feel less frustrated?

[Tampa Turtle]

It was cleared by the Scout Executive of our council.  One of the boys was son to the Council Field Director who made the suggestion in the first place. 

 

Everyone of the boys that came in under those circumstances Eagled.  Now it's an issue for NESA to deal with.

 

 

 

The Whittlin' Chit is earned as a Bear and reviewed under AOL requirements.  It is again revisited when the boy is to explain the safety issues of a pocket knife under the Scout requirements (#5).  The Totin' Chit is earned as a TenderFoot.(#3d).

 

Thanks I was rusty.

[Tampa Turtle]

Scouts bridged in late May. We've got 6 out of 7 their Scout rank. The last one has one knot tying requirement open. I "dumped" the Cyberchip on the parents along with the rest of the youth protection requirement we've always told the Scouts to do at home.

 

Most of the new Scout have been on at least a couple of camp outs, plus 5 attended summer camp. With a bit of luck, we should get the majority their tenderfoot at our September court of honor. Looking at the new first class requirements, we're going to be lucky if we get any of the to first class in their first year.

 

We 'dump' the Cyberchip on the older boys to run and they do a surprisingly good job--their view of dangers seems better than us old folks. 

[Tampa Turtle]

Stosh, to clarify. So the SE allowed that BUT was that before Scout was a rank? 'Cause you said they Eagled which would imply some time has gone by,

Edited July 13, 2016 by Tampa Turtle

[Stosh]

Stosh, to clarify. So the SE allowed that BUT was that before Scout was a rank? 'Cause you said they Eagled which would imply some time has gone by,

 

This was in 1995 when I was working on my 1993 WB ticket.  I went back as ASM and took on WDL and brought the Web I boys through to AOL and into Boy Scouts and followed them through to Eagle.    Scout was not a rank, just an award.  The only skill the boys did not MASTER for TF was the 30 day wait for the physical fitness part of TF.  Basically all the SM did was waive the 30 days because the Web II boys had shown the SM many times prior to the cross-over they knew their stuff.  When they crossed-over, they received their Scout Handbook, a necker and slide, the Scout award and TF badge.  From December through June, the boys had basically been on enough Boy Scout activities that they were already operating as a patrol instead of a den.  The "cross-over" was more of a COH than a traditional cross-over.  They came in as a NSP and hung together until they aged out.  One boy moved out of the area, but Eagled on his own (Field Director's son).  Still keep in touch with those boys I worked with 25 years ago.  The two years with them were the best part of my WB ticket.

[T2Eagle]

 

3b. Become familiar with your patrol name, emblem, flag, and yell. Explain how these items create patrol spirit. (They formed a new patrol just before my son crossed over and they haven't picked these things yet... the patrol is even listed in Scoutbook as TBD)

 

 

Typing this up, I am realizing this isn't necessarily a problem with the program as it is the Troop's organization. I am wondering though how do you all, as leaders, balance making sure program requirements get met when the boys clearly have no interest in getting some things done? At what point do you step in and give them a deadline? Take the Patrol name, flag, and yell for example. The boys just don't care that they don't have one

 

As parents, how long do you wait before speaking up? As a Cub parent, I would just step up and offer to lead a portion of a den meeting and organize whatever activity he was needing (this was usually only necessary to finish electives that my son was working on alone). I get that's not how Scouts works, but how does it work then? I just keep telling my son, "You got to speak up for yourself and talk to your patrol leader." But he says he is... what more can I do to encourage him and help him feel less frustrated?

There are several issues to unpack here.  I'll start with the last.  Feel free to have a chat with your SM or an ASM to understand all the mechanics about how Advancement works in your troop.  Don't focus on this issue, focus on the over all process: who signs off requirements, who sets the standards, who makes the calls when things aren't clear.  Emphasize that you want to understand not because you want your son to advance, but because you want to help your son understand how to advance when and if he wants to.

 

On the specific issues you raised, if the Patrol doesn't have a name, yell, flag, etc., then a possible answer is "we don't have these things yet" followed by a discussion of why that might be OK, why it might not be OK, and what if anything can and should the scout and the patrol do about it. That discussion should fulfill the requirement.  Some troops use these tools very effectively in carrying out the patrol method, but they're not the only way it can be done.  In my troop we have patrol names but rarely have yells, flags, etc., but the patrols still function pretty well, some troops use these tools perfunctorily because the book says you have to have them.

 

On the knots, practice at home, practice, practice, practice, and then have your son grab who ever it is that signs off on requirements and ask him to stay after the meeting for five minutes so he can demonstrate it.

 

Cyber chip is new and I need to understand it better before I comment, but I know there was a long thread on these boards not long ago that seemed pretty helpful.

 

Finally if things aren't working out still, as a SM I always want to know that.  Especially for a new scout I am fine if the parent helps the scout approach me to talk about these things, you can walk up to me with your scout and ask me to speak with him, I'll be glad to have that conversation with him.

Edited July 13, 2016 by T2Eagle

[Tampa Turtle]

This was in 1995 when I was working on my 1993 WB ticket.  I went back as ASM and took on WDL and brought the Web I boys through to AOL and into Boy Scouts and followed them through to Eagle.    Scout was not a rank, just an award.  The only skill the boys did not MASTER for TF was the 30 day wait for the physical fitness part of TF.  Basically all the SM did was waive the 30 days because the Web II boys had shown the SM many times prior to the cross-over they knew their stuff.  When they crossed-over, they received their Scout Handbook, a necker and slide, the Scout award and TF badge.  From December through June, the boys had basically been on enough Boy Scout activities that they were already operating as a patrol instead of a den.  The "cross-over" was more of a COH than a traditional cross-over.  They came in as a NSP and hung together until they aged out.  One boy moved out of the area, but Eagled on his own (Field Director's son).  Still keep in touch with those boys I worked with 25 years ago.  The two years with them were the best part of my WB ticket.

 

Well then yes I can see the hand-wave. Not sure if it would be Kosher now with Scout as a rank. But not a hill I chose to die on in any case...we have had some cross-overs who had already gone on two Troop campouts as guests and knew their stuff...

[meschen]

We 'dump' the Cyberchip on the older boys to run and they do a surprisingly good job--their view of dangers seems better than us old folks. 

 

I agree that they are more than capable, its just a matter of timing. We got the Webelos just before their first campout and we were focused on the "getting ready to camp" skills, new patrol formation (names, flags etc) and the routine campout planning activities. Our goal has always been to get Scout done by our May Court of Honor and by sending this requirement home to the parents it was easier to get that done.

[Stosh]

Well then yes I can see the hand-wave. Not sure if it would be Kosher now with Scout as a rank. But not a hill I chose to die on in any case...we have had some cross-overs who had already gone on two Troop campouts as guests and knew their stuff...

The requirements have changed many times since then.  One could not get into Boy Scouts with AOL unless they were 10 1/2 years old.  Now that's dropped to 10 years old.  That would easily compensate for the program of 1993-5 I had because my boys were all true Web II boys when they went into Boy Scouts. 

 

I took over the boys in Feb of 1993 and went to a weekly, year around program.  They earned Webelos by the end of summer and AOL when Feb of 1994 rolled around.  That left them a year to go for Boy Scouts.  We went out and just did a ton of fun stuff.  Some of the boys that missed some of the pins the first time around got a second chance on any of them and we went camping either as a den or with the Boy Scouts fairly regularly.  They did go to camporee that second year and did a major 3 day weekend canoe campout that they planned, and executed totally on their own.  They did ask me to do the steaks on the campfire because they didn't want them ruined.    Steak, baked potatoes, corn on the cob, on a deserted island..... Great event.