Training requirements for Wood Badge

[T2Eagle]

May I ask what year you attended?  

2011

[Stosh]

Obviously there is no quality control in any of the BSA program, from training to running units.......  It's unfortunate because if run properly it's a pretty good youth leadership program.......

[Eagledad]

Those four Beavers mentioned above (one Sm and three ASMs) who had no training needed to have many things explained to them that they were assumed to know - such as the Aims of Scouting.   Explaining things took significant time away from focusing on the WB materials they were to absorb.  They didn't have a chance to understand the supposed  "teaching of the Patrol Method by demonstration" because what they saw was that the staff (adults) had all the power and the patrol members -- even if understood to be surrogates for Scouts -- had no power to plan anything and little opportunity to run anything beyond the "patrol meeting" between weekends.   (This second problem would have not been helped much by basic training for SM/ASMs as that training, like WB, does not  have the learning objective of teaching the elements of "Scouting's Most Important Method" and does not do so - just bits and pieces.  Prior to September, 2014, much less about the Patrol Method was taught in basic for SM/ASMs and nothing in the Patrol Method section of the syllabus. 

 

Cheating to puff up numbers would not seem to model Scouting's Values.

OK, I admit I haven't participated in WB for 10 years now. But Pack leaders were encouraged to participate also. Has that changed? If not, don't they suffer from the same ignorance?

 

Barry

[TAHAWK]

WB is now for "'all 'qualified' Scouters."  The objective is said to be to have every Scouter who has completed basic training for his/her primary position also take WB.  

[Tampa Turtle]

WB is now for "'all 'qualified' Scouters."  The objective is said to be to have every Scouter who has completed basic training for his/her primary position also take WB.  

Really. ALL scouters? Is that because the position specific training is THAT bad or is just Wood Badge increasing their fiefdom?

[Eagledad]

WB is now for "'all 'qualified' Scouters."  The objective is said to be to have every Scouter who has completed basic training for his/her primary position also take WB.  

Patrol Method is not the WB objective, building a working adult team that understands the BSA objectives is. Whether the adult takes WB a week before or a week after their specific training really doesn't matter much because they are still working in the dark. Ideally we would like the participant to have some experience in the position they use for planning their ticket. But when adults of all scout ages are invited, we just have to hope they stay in for the long haul. Some adults do change their minds about their future positions in the program after they are counseled in their ticket, but I still don't think specific training would have much effect with that choice.

 

Barry

[TAHAWK]

I have no idea what the rationale is.

[RMcKenzie]

The idea is to have everyone "Trained" for their role. I understand the BSA's desire for that but honestly, WB is so much more past the role at home. If the course provides the right experience, it will inspire the leader, including more training for all the various roles.

 

It is unfair in a way when you figure a Committee member could attend with nothing more than fast start, YPT and being registered while a Scoutmaster is required to have OLT and several other courses.

 

As a WB Course Director, it is a challenge to recruit for a course and get everyone trained.

 

It is worth it, WB is a special program.

[NJCubScouter]

Welcome to the forum RMcKenzie!

[Stosh]

Ditto on the welcome @@RMcKenzie

Edited July 15, 2016 by Stosh

[DuctTape]

IMO, if WB is an intro program (all are invited/recruited) then it fails to be an upper echelon program. One cannot have a 101 class also be a Masters level at the same time. If the goal is now to have it be an all-comers training, ie Scouting 101, then what is the advanced program now? To use scouting terms, WB is now a tenderfoot (maybe 1st class at best) training regimen. What is the Eagle level?

 

I understand the rationale for recruiting and training more scouters, but I do not think WB is the proper place. Other trainings, especially the Patrol Method (which doesn't exist as a BSA program, iirc) are more appropriate for entry level training. BSA should focus more on providing the real basics for scouters and not pretend that WB is the pinnacle of training when it isn't (anymore). Especially when the basics are sorely lacking. I suppose this isn't a surprise as it mirrors the boys advancement push by hq, no real basic expectations (ie one and done). 

[Eagledad]

Well I don't know how WB should be classified, but I think the curriculum is one of the more important adult curriculums for providing a successful program. Its realistic to assume that at least 75% of adults joining today don't have any scouting experience. As a result the adults don't understand the goals of program, nor do they understand how the many parts play together for the big picture goal. I know this because I used to counsel struggling units. And typically the problems started with not understanding how each adults roll fit in their team, and not having any goals to point them in a general direction. I was teaching those WB basics years before they were introduced in the new WB syllabus.

 

I Understand the importance of knowing the scout skills so that we can teach them. But, the BSA learned that even when units know the skills, the program can still go off in the weeds if the adults don't work well as a team or know how all the parts in their program work together toward a bigger purpose. In fact, WB was changed because the old course was found tobe contributing to units going off in the weeds.

 

Maybe the problem is that this course shouldn't be called WB. WB originated for showing "experienced" Scoutmasters advanced teaching skills. It was never intended to teach basic scout skills or even the patrol method. Maybe what needs to be done is rename the course and retire the Woodbadge title all together.

 

Barry

Edited July 15, 2016 by Eagledad

[Stosh]

IMO, if WB is an intro program (all are invited/recruited) then it fails to be an upper echelon program. One cannot have a 101 class also be a Masters level at the same time. If the goal is now to have it be an all-comers training, ie Scouting 101, then what is the advanced program now? To use scouting terms, WB is now a tenderfoot (maybe 1st class at best) training regimen. What is the Eagle level?

 

I understand the rationale for recruiting and training more scouters, but I do not think WB is the proper place. Other trainings, especially the Patrol Method (which doesn't exist as a BSA program, iirc) are more appropriate for entry level training. BSA should focus more on providing the real basics for scouters and not pretend that WB is the pinnacle of training when it isn't (anymore). Especially when the basics are sorely lacking. I suppose this isn't a surprise as it mirrors the boys advancement push by hq, no real basic expectations (ie one and done). 

 

Instead of putting all their energy into a generic WB program, why not prop up the position specific positions and take them to a higher level.  WB for a Lion DL is not going to be the same as for a SM/ASM.  To design a program to deal with something as far fetched as that is really dumb.

 

You are correct.  The push for WB has dumbed it down to the point where it is more of a status symbol than an actual learning event,.

[TAHAWK]

The WB syllabus devotes only a few minutes to explaining Aims and Methods.  (Course Director is staring fixedly at you and tapping the face of his watch.)

 

Currently, no BSA training syllabus has as a goal that the "participant" learn what constitutes the Patrol Method. (Although there is a goal that the participant learn how to apply what is not explained.) This weakness is recognized by some employees of National Council and efforts will continue to improve training adults in 'Scouting's most important method."  

 

If you have somehow picked up what the Patrol Method is, you will see it demonstrated at WB,.  So the participant who knows more than the bare minimum will get far more out of WB.  It is unfair, rather, to the participant who knows only the minimum or, as is being discussed, even less than the required minimum.  (How about a suggested reading program for participants?)

 

Inspiration is useful as the Scouter is only introduced to the program methods and other tools he or she will need to deliver the program to youth. 

 

Compare and contrast (from the syllabus for Scoutmaster Position

 

 

 

How effectively the Boy Scouts of America influences the lives of youth depends on its leaders and their ability to apply the aims and methods of Scouting—these are the keys,

 

 

 

When Scoutmaster Position-Specific training and Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills (IOLS) have both been completed, new Scoutmasters will have the tools needed to begin an effective Boy

Scouting program.

 

 

Scoutmaster Position-Specific training cannot provide adult leaders everything they need to know to be successful Scoutmasters.

 

I have had several Scouters convey that they see no reason to attend "other" training (e.g. University of Scouting) as they have achieved the pinnacle of Scouting training by earning their beads.  They were emphatically not taught that at WB.  Perhaps the message of the need for continuous learning needs to be strengthened.  It is not strengthened, I think,  by allowing the untrained to attended WB.

[Eagledad]

Instead of putting all their energy into a generic WB program, why not prop up the position specific positions and take them to a higher level.  WB for a Lion DL is not going to be the same as for a SM/ASM.  To design a program to deal with something as far fetched as that is really dumb.

 

You are correct.  The push for WB has dumbed it down to the point where it is more of a status symbol than an actual learning event,.

One who has not participated in a course should not make comments in ignorance.

 

The objective of building a functional team and program around goals are skills all adults leaders need to learn and practice. The course gets more specific to each participant responsibilities by directing them to design their Ticket Items to their individuals leadership responsibilities.

 

The course curriculum and the objectives of the course were completely change from the old course, so how is that dumbing down? WB is not a scouts skills development course, it never has been. But course directors who didn't understand the purpose of the course tried to make it a skills course and forced National to start all over again.

 

As for the patrol method part of the discussion, I would not use WB as a platform to teach patrol method. At best it's just a hint of patrol method.

 

Barry