Skipping Webelos I

[Casper72]

Hey guys love the site and love the forums. I wish they were even busier as I love to chat about scouting. As I am new to scouting with my son I frequent all the different forums. Ok on to my question. 

 

I have a friend who has her son in the same troop as my son. Her son is just becoming a Webelos and turns 10 this month. My question is can her son just tell his den leader that he does not want to do the Webelos I program and work on the Arrow of Light since he will be 10 1/2 at the time all the others cross over into a troop. That is where his friends are at and he wants to be. He does not want to spend two years in Cub Scouts and the fact that in one year he can join a troop anyways. I know in his previous ranks he has went ahead and worked on extra electives outside of den meetings to earn other things that most of the other boys did not do. I suggested to his mom that if he could work on the Arrow of Light that he still works and tries to earn Webelos things also. Thank you for any help you can provide. 

 

I think I have seen that you can but the situations were a little different so just wanted to clarify. Also if he can how do you not upset the den/troop leader when telling him that he wants to do this. 

 

Once again thank you for your replies I love learning as much about this as I can. 

 

Casper72

[MrBob]

Under the new program requirements, he can (a) do them in order, (b) skip straight to AOL, or © work on them simultaneously, with the caveat that "properly" he should get the last requirement for Webelos signed off BEFORE the last requirement for AOL (since, by the book, he cannot earn Webelos *after* earning AOL).

 

His choice on which of the three he wants to do.

 

 

Regarding your 2nd question, the most straightforward way of doing this is to put him in the 2nd year webelos den and have him "officially" work on AOL with the den, and do the Webelos badge stuff on his own time.

Edited July 7, 2016 by MrBob

[Prepared]

I am with MrBob, just talk with the Den leader for the "AOL" scouts and see if they are willing to take him into their den. You should do it soon though, there are a lot of dens who are already working on the adventures.

[blw2]

Hey, welcome to the forum Casper72

Happy to have you here!  I agree with you, that it's a fun diversion to immerse yourself into scouting talk.  I started when I was active in my son's pack, as you are doing.  It seems that most of the conversations are more to do with troop life though... One regret i have is not paying closer attention and studying up on those troop issues earlier.  I think I could have done the Cubs a better service had I been more focused on working them towards the patrol method.

What is your position with the pack, and what level is your son currently?

 

As for your question.... I can't add to what's already been said, since I'm only slightly familiar with the updated program..... except to say that I'd encourage that scout to make it work and stick with his friends.  I see no sense in dragging out Cubs just for the sake of doing things chronologically.  Sticking with friends is more important.

[Eagle94-A1]

A few questions for you.

 

1) What does your son want to do?

 

2) Where are his friends at: the Webelos I den or Webelos II den.

 

3) IS HE READY FOR BOY SCOUTS IN 6-9 MONTHS?!?!?!?!?! (caps for emphasis)

 

My middle son was in a similar situation last year. Originally he decided to skip Webelos I and go straight into Web II since he would have been eligible to Crossover in May. He eventually decided he wanted to remain with his friends, and will be Crossing Over in December with his den.

 

I want to emphasize the last question because it is VITAL.  We had 4 Scouts from 3 different packs cross over early. 1 Scout had no issues as that pack begins the Webelos to Scout transition as soon as they become Webelos in June between 3rd and 4th grades. They also have a year round program. 1 Scout had some initial issues as that pack really incorporates the Patrol Method after December of 4th Grade Year.

 

The issue was the last two. Their pack did NOT begin the transition process until the Scouts actually crossed over. They were very ill prepared for Boy Scouts, and held back their patrol to the point that the patrol was abolished and the patrols were rearranged after them being in the troop a year. They are FINALLY getting their act together.

[meyerc13]

As others have stated, you've found the loophole in the new program requirements.  The intention is for fourth graders to work on Webelos, and fifth graders to work on Arrow of Light.  From the Guide to Advancement (bolding added by me):

 

Boys who join Cub Scouting for the first time as a member of an Arrow of Light den, or boys who were previously members of a Webelos den but did not earn the Webelos rank, shall work on Arrow of Light requirements during their fifth-grade year. They can earn the Arrow of Light Award without earning the Webelos rank.

also:

 

For the Arrow of Light rank (earned by boys who have completed the fourth grade), seven adventures are required

 

However, the Boy Scout joining requirements are:

 

Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old

 

In the past this wasn't a problem, because you couldn't earn Arrow of Light without first earning Webelos.  Technically, that requirement is no longer there.

 

With that said, I think we as parents and leaders shouldn't encourage boys to do this.  While Boy Scouting is fun, the reality is that boys are going from being the Seniors in the Pack, to the Freshmen in the Troop.  Think about when you went from High School to College.  That Freshman year at College is very intimidating for the former High School Seniors who thought they knew everything.

 

Probably a good compromise is to tell the boy he is free to work on both Webelos and Arrow of Light as fast as he wants, but as a parent make him finish both before he crosses over.  LDS units do this - they complete both Webelos and Arrow of Light in 12 months.  My son did this because he skipped a grade in school.  It isn't easy, but it is possible.

 

Also, food for thought... but why does he want to leave the Pack?  If the Webelos program is being well run, there shouldn't be a huge difference between Webelos and Boy Scouts... if boys are saying things like this, I think the challenge to the adults is to make the Webelos program more Boy Scout-like to challenge the boys and keep them engaged.

[Casper72]

Hey thank you all for your responses. 

 

First, this is not my son. It is another youth in the troop and his mother talked to me about this. His friends are in the AoL group and he is still in the Webelos. But like I said before it seemed like he did things at home outside of the den when he was a bear. He was always being awarded more things than all the other boys of his den. My position in all of this is just as a supportive parent of my own son. I am not a leader in any fashion in the troop or den. I have offered to help out if it is ever needed or wanted. But have not been taken up on the offer as of yet. I would not even mind helping this boy to do them at the same time. We all went to a resident camp in June and finished one elective and only have a couple things on two other ele tives so it would not be that hard to help him with another elective and focus on the required items. 

 

I do have one other question though is the time to be a Webelos and Arrow of Light if he works on them together then would he still be able to cross over with the others in January or would he have to spend additional time? Or can that time be concurrent? 

[Casper72]

I think what I am going to do is suggest to her that he work on them together. His main thing is that he wants to be with his friends but does not mind putting in the work. I guess we will have to see if he really wants to work on both or not. Also, the AoL den is starting to teach patrol method when we get back to meetings in late August. We also have a day camp coming up that will be able to help a little in doing some of the requirements. I think if he realizes that if he puts in the hard work he will be able to get both I think he will but I guess it would be a wait and see. 

 

I do think he would be ready for scouts in six to nine months but that is a newbies opinion. He has been really well behaved and listens very well in my interactions with him. 

 

Once again thank you all very much for your replies. 

[desertrat77]

If the cub is ready and willing to make the jump to scouts, more power to him.

 

Overall the cub program today is an over-long, tedious journey.   Especially Webelos.   Years ago, Webs was 1 (one) fast paced year that culminated in the Arrow of Light.   Then adios to cubs and hello to the nearest scout troop.

[meyerc13]

I do have one other question though is the time to be a Webelos and Arrow of Light if he works on them together then would he still be able to cross over with the others in January or would he have to spend additional time? Or can that time be concurrent? 

 

If he is at least 10 years old and has earned the Arrow of Light, he is eligible to crossover into Boy Scouts.  Requirements for both can be completed concurrently.

 

As I said, my son did this because he skipped a grade.  He crossed over in April, a couple of months before completing the fifth grade, aged 10.  Once he earned his AoL, he was eligible to crossover.  Completing both can be done in one year, but it isn't easy.  Starting this summer at camp is great.  Also, take advantage of any Pin Days or other opportunities in your area to complete extra Adventures that the Webelos or Arrow of Light Den Leader doesn't have on the calendar for next year (depending on which of the two dens he will be in).

[Casper72]

Thak you all!

[JasonG172]

If the cub Webelo is ready and willing to make the jump to scouts, more power to him.

 

 

FTFY

[desertrat77]

FTFY

Thanks Jason, I stand corrected.   Many moons ago, we Webs were still considered cubs.  

[Stosh]

Other than the patch, just go into Boy Scouts.  My pack pretty much fell apart and I got Wolf and Bear.  Never got Lion or Webelos, but I went into Scouts at 11.

[JasonG172]

If you don't have a decent Webelos Leader teaching the program as it is intended, then why not.  However I don't believe skipping serves any purpose if you have a good webelos leader in hand.