Issues with CO Rep and Committee Chair. Who to escalate to ?

[scouter957]

If a concerned parent or ASM wishes to engage council or district regarding the Chartered Organization Rep and Committee Chair who do they go to ? 

 

Our CO Rep and our Committee chair are now the same individual, and there are issues with the individual holding both of these positions.

 

I prefer to not discuss the details however to set the tone of the question:

 

CC-Rep/CC is failing to ensure that National BSA program is being followed within the troop and is resisting change from the adult leaders to follow the BSA program. At times directly opposing leaders that attempt to change the ways of the troop to follow well published, well defined methods. Those attempting changes are Eagles. Those resisting change (edit) like prefer ( end of edit ) an adult led troop and hold significant positions of power.

 

Since ASMs serve at the pleasure of the committee chair they are at risk to stand up to the individual that can dismiss them, however whenthe committee chair is not trained for their position and not upholding the standards, what are the escalation paths since this individual holds both Chartered Organization Representative and Committee Chair.

 

Thank you in advance,

Edited July 4, 2016 by scouter957

[Sentinel947]

My recommendation is to walk, to another troop if the situation is as aggravated as you describe. 

[NealOnWheels]

All adult leadership serves at the pleasure of the Chartered Organization not the Committee.  That goes for the Chartered Organization Representative as well.  If you feel you must take this further you should talk to the Chartered Organization Head.  Don't be surprised if you don't get the results you want.  The Council will not likely get involved unless there is something of a serious nature.  Or you can skip the drama and move to another unit.

 

[Stosh]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

 

Secondly of all, just walk away, this is a no-win situation.  Politics are more important to these folks than what's best for the boys.

[frankpalazzi]

I would need more details before making a comment on this issue.  One person is allowed to hold both CC and COR positions, and COs have reasons for doing that.  In specifically what ways is this  person "not following the BSA program?"

[Beavah]

Yah, welcome to da forums, @@scouter957.

 

Yeh haven't given many details to light our way, so I'm forced to echo what my colleagues have already said.

 

The Organization owns the unit, not the BSA.  The head of the Chartered Organization (pastor, principal, etc.) can hire/fire da COR/CC.  You can approach that person.  You are unlikely to be successful.  Parents griping about a scoutmaster not followin' the program are like parents griping about a school teacher not followin' the curriculum.  How often does such a teacher get replaced?  Pastors and principals aren't typically very open to that sort of griping. 

 

There is no one on the BSA side to "escalate" to, eh?  There is a fellow called a "Unit Commissioner" whose role it is to be a friend and advisor to the unit.  That person can sometimes gently nudge and guide folks in a troop who are willing to be nudged and guided.  Unless there's somethin' like child molestation or scouts in da 4th of July Parade carrying signs saying "Atheist Scouts", the BSA is goin' to defer to the chartered partner and its representative.

 

So your options, I'm afraid, are either to go along to get along, or to move along to another troop.  Fightin' adult wars in a unit does nothin' but harm kids with collateral damage no matter who is "right".   If yeh can't sit back and accept da call, don't storm out and yell at the umpire.  Go find a different game.

 

Beavah

[scouter957]

I haven't given details as I'm more looking for a conversation rather than a confrontation. 

 

I understand the chartered organization may "own" the unit, however they are clueless about scouting. the Unit commissioner doesn't exist best I can tell. 

 

Appreciate the comments. The easy way is to move to another troop.

[David CO]

Yes, that's true. All of us adults are clueless. Just ask our teenagers.

[qwazse]

Welcome to tha forms.

 

... Appreciate the comments. The easy way is to move to another troop.

Sometimes that's the friendliest way. You disagree about how things should be done and rather than make everybody miserable pushing and pulling, you allow yourselvds to do a more traditional program while they improvise with increased adult leadership.

 

Also think about starting a new unit in an underserved area of your district. One of your Eagles is surely in a club (e.g., Legion, VFW, Sportman's club) who could provide a location. Get out a map of units in he area and have a chat with your DE. Suggestion: schedule your meetings on a unique day of the week so that you have a chance of recruiting good boys who are otherwise occupied when other troops meet.

[MrBob]

Yes, that's true. All of us adults are clueless. Just ask our teenagers.

 

That's very true.  The day my eldest was born, my mother's IQ jumped 200 points.  Suddenly, she was a genius.

[SSScout]

  The day my eldest was born, my mother's IQ jumped 200 points.  Suddenly, she was a genius.

 

""“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.â€""  = Mark Twain =

 

Scouter957:  Well, if you want  a little  advice, you certainly have come to the right place.  We have as little as anyone for you.

 

If , as you say, the group of (Eagle?) Scouters in your Troop want the Boy Led, Patrol Method Scouting espoused by the "official" BSA, and the COR/CCh is resisting such (desirous of the Adult Led, Troop Method Scouting espoused by control needy folks), then , as has been suggested, your choices are:

1) Find another unit.  Too easy, but sometimes the best idea.

2)  Go to the Charter Org, the Institution Head and point out what they signed up for on the charter document. Go as a group, see below.

This needs to be done  as a group, not just by singular you.   It always looks better to have a Concerned Committee  of like minded folks . Less like a "rebellion", more like a "let's improve things".  Try hard to let the IH  take credit for the ideas.  Let the problem person have a graceful way to "do the right thing", rather than leave in a huff or need to be dismissed in disgrace.  Are ALL the ASMs and SM on board with this? 

3)  Make sure the folks involved can take and DO take the relevant BSA training.  Point out to the COR/CCh that no one can do the best job if they don't have the right "schoolin' ". 

4)   Remember, "it's for the kids" , not for you or him or  those men and women over there.....   The purpose of life is not to add to one's own resume, but  "to plant trees under whose shade one does not expect to sit".   Our job as adult , old goat patrol Scouters is to set up the framework in which  Scouts  may  succeed,  not to require their success on our terms. 

5)  As has been suggested, as  last resort, your Scout Leader cadre can "jump ship", find another CO (church. club, temple, VFD,...) and start a new Troop/Pack.  Not unusual, not too hard.  Depending on the response to choices #2,3,4 above, this might be the best and most fun choice!   Heck, you've got experienced Scouters, boys eager, and that's the best start for a new unit!

 

See you on the trail!

[David CO]

In my line of work, we get a lot of grievances. We have a formal grievance policy to handle them. So long as people follow the grievance procedures, they need not fear any form of retaliation.

 

This is one of the advantages of having a solid institution as a CO. If scouter957 has a CO with a formal grievance policy, this might be the way to go.

Edited July 4, 2016 by David CO

[Beavah]

I understand the chartered organization may "own" the unit, however they are clueless about scouting. the Unit commissioner doesn't exist best I can tell. 

 

 

Yah, not that uncommon, eh?  

 

That's why traipsing off to da IH, whether individually or as a group, is usually not productive.  Organizations that are mostly passive sponsors don't want to deal with headaches or refereeing adult squabbles, especially if a bunch of da adults aren't really members of their organization.  I've seen 'em say "this isn't worth it" and just shut down the program.     Honestly, it's not unreasonable for 'em to expect adults who live by da Oath and Law to manage ourselves, eh? 

 

So you're left with either treatin' each other with good grace and respect and workin' through your "storming" phase, or moving on.  Yeh might start a new troop as suggested, but I'd offer caution there.  If yeh really don't have enough lads in the local area to support a new troop, like as not yeh hurt Scouting by doing so.  Both troops are smaller/weaker and usually one troop or the other ends up collapsing.  Sometimes both.   

 

Without knowin' more about your situation it's hard to offer any more advice or conversation.  Usually in cases like this I help adults take da long view, moderate their egos, and be creative.

 

Beavah

Edited July 4, 2016 by Beavah

[meyerc13]

the Unit commissioner doesn't exist best I can tell.

 

The general recommended practice is for each Unit Commissioner to serve 3 units.  Sadly, there are rarely enough Commissioners for this to happen.  However, if you don't have a UC for your unit, than the responsibility falls to the District Commissioner.  Seek that individual out, and if he or she doesn't have the bandwidth to help you directly, it is up to him or her to assign someone who can.  If you don't know who your District Commissioner is, go to Roundtable and ask the Roundtable Commissioner.  The DC should be the Roundtable Commissioner's boss (although even more sadly, some DCs don't realize that they are also responsible for Roundtable).

 

With that said, there may be nothing the UC can do in a case like this, since the role of UC is to be a friend of the unit.  They can suggest and gently nudge a unit to keep them on the track (or get them back on the right track), but they have no real authority over the unit and can't help a unit that doesn't want their help.

 

As an aside, as a Roundtable Commissioner I suggest to my units to add the contact info for their Chartered Org Rep, Institutional Head, Unit Commissioner, District Commissioner, etc. to their unit handbook.  All to often, only the Cubmaster/Scoutmaster and/or Committee Chair know who these contacts are, so if something happens to one of them (or in cases like this) nobody else in the unit knows who to contact.

[JasonG172]

One person is allowed to hold both CC and COR positions, and COs have reasons for doing that. 

 

 

Incorrect!