Successfully complete your Board of Review for the ### Rank

[NJCubScouter]

I knew people would have a problem with the idea of asking the Scout to come back for his BOR when he is in uniform. As I said, I know that is not what the G2A says. But I didn't make the "rule". It has been in existence since before (probably long before) my son and I joined the troop, and my son will soon be 25, so you do the math. Nobody has ever complained about it, and nobody has ever switched troops over it, probably because nobody really has a problem with it and they know that if they don't pass this week, they will pass next week when they find their uniform. They all have a uniform. And the BOR's are held at troop meetings, so they generally are wearing the uniform anyway.

 

And if there really was an emergency, the boy is having his Life BOR and today is his 17.5th birthday and if he doesn't pass the BOR today he will never make Eagle, and he has some sort of excuse as to the whereabouts of his uniform, he probably would get a break. (I suppose some other boy might be in his undershirt for part of the meeting while Life Candidate borrows his shirt.  But I don't think the subject has never come up.)

 

And quite frankly, if anyone ever did start yelling and screaming to council about it and waving around the Guide to Advancement, we would probably have to change the policy. But it says something to me that, in this day and age where it seems parents like to find anything they can to complain about, this has never happened.

So, call it a "power trip" if you wish, it doesn't matter, because I know that in my troop, that's not the case.

[NJCubScouter]

... provide an unbiased evaluation of the metal of the man?

Or the mettle, even.

 

Sorry, I try not to do things like that, but sometimes I can't help myself. The best one I have even seen in the Scouting context is when the annual calendar came out one year and it had the date for the spring "Quart of Honor." I would think we could manage at least a couple of gallons of honor.

Edited July 6, 2016 by NJCubScouter

[MrBob]

Let's put it this way. If it is a re-test, are you having the BoR in a swimming pool? May the scout light a fire in your meeting place? Is he first blindfolded, dropped off five miles away with map and compass, and required to hike to the BoR location?

Assuming that your BoR location doesn't have the facilities to randomly test any of the skills accorded to a 1st class scout, what makes you so sure your "re-test" will provide an unbiased evaluation of the metal of the man?

 

The best way to find out if a scout has the skills: ASK HIM, "CAN YOU ACTUALLY DO THE STUFF LISTED ON THIS PAGE?"

 

8.0.1.1 Not a Retest or “Examinationâ€

Though one reason for a board of review is to help ensure the Scout did what he was supposed to do to meet the requirements, it shall become neither a retest or “examination,†nor a challenge of his knowledge.

 

 

Nope, can't do that, Q.  "can you actually" is challenging his knowledge.  The sign-off is all the "proof" you need, according to the procedures outlined.

[JosephMD]

When I was doing my early rank boards of review back in 89, they were really hard.  I was tested thoroughly, but that was the expectation given to me, that I would be able to answer any question and / or demonstrate any skill that I had learned to get the requirement signed off.  I studied my scout book all week before the BoR, to be sure I knew everything I was supposed to have learned while working on skill awards and the first aid merit badge.  It was actually kind of scary, but that's just how it was done in my tiny troop.  Of course, I never forgot how to tie most of my knots, or my first aid skills, so, there is that. 

 

My star rank BoR was the most scary, knowing everything about all 5 merit badges I earned ... but that is when things changed, I wasn't so much tested on the specific skills, but rather, it was a conversation about what I had learned.  Even in 89 & 90, this probably wasn't the way it was supposed to be done.  But I think my SM, hey, he was the troop adult, so he did the BoR with his wife, the CC, and that was it, I think his goal was to make sure we would always be first class scouts, as long as we should live, and know what a first class scout should know. 

 

Would I do that today, no, but only because it is against the rules, not because it wouldn't be the right thing to do. 

[BamBam]

As I am reading through these posts I'm alarmed that some units are treating BOR like they are military promotion  boards. ready for the promotion boards. I had to march into the room, stand at attention, salute,and  repeat the NCO creed. All of this before I was asked a single question to be considered for promotion. I was an adult, nervous and afraid.  I can't imagine how a 11 - 17 year old kid would feel doing something similar to this for a BOR. I sat on about 10 BOR in the past few years. The scouts come into the room and he either joins us at the table or sit with us on comfortable sofa and chairs and we have a casual conversation with the scouts. Questions are asked about how he feels about the  troop, his patrol, what's going good, what's going bad, etc. There's no retest. They are asked what meal did they cook for this rank or what or who did you teach with the EDGE method.   The questions vary on the rank and age of the scout. It is not an inquisition and it is not an easy check off either. 

[qwazse]

... Nope, can't do that, Q.  "can you actually" is challenging his knowledge.  The sign-off is all the "proof" you need, according to the procedures outlined. ...

The question is mostly intended to be rhetorical, more of a statement of admiration, considering that I've seen MCs try to teach skills like fire-starting ... chilling results at best.

It's not challenging his knowledge. It's asking the boy what he's retain. There's a difference.

[blw2]

We can pretty much figure out if a scout has completed the requirements just by talking to him about them.  "Johnny, you had to fix a meal for your patrol on a campout, what did you make?  How was it?  Was there anything you should have done differently?" , "who did you teach the square knot to?", "was it easy for them?", "if I asked them to tie it right now, do you think they could?".  None of those questions would qualify as a retest, but they do let us know that the scout completed the requirements.  The committee has to trust that when a requirement is signed off that the scout has mastered the skill, if there is concern in that area it must be taken up with "program", the Scoutmaster.  That is not the job of the committee....

 

now THIS is what needs to be told to folks in a position of sitting in on boards!.... just to give an idea about the sorts of things that they might ask.

 

8.0.1.1 Not a Retest or “Examinationâ€

Though one reason for a board of review is to help ensure the Scout did what he was supposed to do to meet the requirements, it shall become neither a retest or “examination,†nor a challenge of his knowledge.

 

 

Nope, can't do that, Q.  "can you actually" is challenging his knowledge.  The sign-off is all the "proof" you need, according to the procedures outlined.

what most folks don't grasp.....

[Stosh]

"Of all the knots you learned, which was the hardest to master?" 

"Do you like the compass or GPS better?"

"Ever have to do any first aid for real?"

"What did you make for your camp gadget?"

"What's your job in the patrol?"

"Ever get to camp in the rain?  Did you stay dry?"

"What was the most fun thing you did as a patrol?"

"Where did you go on your 5 mile hike?"

 

All of these in a sense are retesting the Scout without retesting the scout.    One can inquire into what he did and how well he enjoyed it.  The answer will tell you whether or not he has mastered the skill.

[5yearscouter]

We've "failed" a scout for a BOR when the board looked at the date of last rank and realized it hadn't quite been 4 most or 6 mos etc.

or that they hadn't actually been in their POR for long enough.

or they really didn't have enough merit badges, or enough eagle required merit badges.

or that they hadn't been on 10 outings or whatever.

or that something in their book wasn't signed as completed even though the sm did the sm conference. 

GTA says SM conference doesn't have to be the last step, so BOR needs to check the book carefully for the things that they can enumerate to see they were done.

 

In our troop the Troop Guides sign off books, and that can be hard to tell signatures.  Signatures come down to scout's honor so we don't question signatures often.  one TG signs his initials so it looks like a Paw print, so at least that one we know and recognize. lol.

 

We did do a BOR training, basically going over what the GTA says a BOR is, and example questions you might want to use.  Tricky questions you might want to avoid or reword to be more open to those not exactly like you are (like do you believe in God, when we have scouts from non-Christian religions- maybe how do you show reverence would be better.) We focus mostly on getting scouts used to being interviewed and answering clearly, give them pointers on not fidgeting too much, and what they have found good and bad about our troop so we can try to improve.

[Tampa Turtle]

We made a Star Scout "come around for another pass" when (he was a boy who did things on his own and avoided meetings and camp outs) could not identify his patrol. patrol leader, or the name of a single fellow member of his patrol.

[UncleP]

We made a Star Scout "come around for another pass" when (he was a boy who did things on his own and avoided meetings and camp outs) could not identify his patrol. patrol leader, or the name of a single fellow member of his patrol.

 

This sounds like my nephew.  I am curious, and still trying to understand how things work, are their "social" requirements for rank advancement?  I have been researching things, so I can give my nephew useful advise and encouragement.

 

All the literature I have read showed specific task, or skills, that have to be mastered in order to advance.  I have also read that requirements for rank can neither be added nor taken away.  I did see the requirement for "Position of Responsibility" (POR).  Is this the same thing as you were discussing?  Can a boy who is primarily solitary succeed in scouts? 

 

Scouting is more complicated then I initially thought it would be.

[Stosh]

This sounds like my nephew.  I am curious, and still trying to understand how things work, are their "social" requirements for rank advancement?  I have been researching things, so I can give my nephew useful advise and encouragement.

 

All the literature I have read showed specific task, or skills, that have to be mastered in order to advance.  I have also read that requirements for rank can neither be added nor taken away.  I did see the requirement for "Position of Responsibility" (POR).  Is this the same thing as you were discussing?  Can a boy who is primarily solitary succeed in scouts? 

 

Scouting is more complicated then I initially thought it would be.

 

There are a number of POR's that do not require direct leadership/contact with the other scouts.  Historian, Librarian, WebMaster,   Then there are those that require only minimal contact with others, Scribe, QuarterMaster,  Those might be good to help your boy push the envelop a bit and take a little more challenging job in the patrol.  The others like PL, APL, etc. would take a bit more socialization to pull off.  There's a place for every boy in Scouting.  Don't worry about it.  Scouting may proved to be an opportunity for your boy to become more social and this whole thing would be a moot point down the road.

[meyerc13]

I wouldn't worry too much about it.  By the time a boy is a Star Scout, he's been in Scouts for at least a couple of years.  By then he should know that Tim or Kevin or Scott or whoever is his Patrol Leader.  As for his Patrol, hopefully he can look at his right sleeve for a reminder (that's where the patrol patch goes).

 

Heck, to this day I can still name most of the Scouts who were in my Troop, including those who were much older than me when I joined, and those who joined when I was the older Scout in my late teens.  As I mentioned earlier, I was very quiet and shy, but your fellow Scouts are your buddies and you get to know them.  It's part of the fun.

[Tampa Turtle]

We were pushing hard for the Patrol method and the boy had been told many times he needed to participate more. Was liked enough...just a bit of a loner. Never really got how he was supposed to work with the younger less experienced guys. He later said he was only in it to get Eagle for his college application and wanted to do the minimum to get there. And he did but it took some parental begging, requirement lawyering, and tire treads on our heads to Council. 

[Stosh]

I've never had a paper eagle go through any of my programs.  I think if one ever comes my way, I'll just push him along as quickly as I can so he doesn't infect the rest of the troop.