Pirate Bandanas as Troop Headgear for Camp

[NJCubScouter]

I'm going to agree with Calico here - and I am not even deterred by the fact that Stosh seems to agree with him too.

[Hedgehog]

Wow, quite the controversy.  

 

You let the scouts decide, but with a bit of advice and supervision.  As far as flags go, it is simple enough; just do not salute, but rather stand properly at attention when required and put hands over their hearts.  

 

Even before reading all of this, my son (without any input from me) decided that the each partrol would choose a different colored bandana and use them for the Patrol Games and not the flag ceremonies.  

[Stosh]

My boys are new, trying to get their act together, not doing very well.  Athletic shorts, no shirt tucked in, etc. looking rather sloppy.  I wore must my scout shirt tonight, didn't tuck it in. didn't scout salute for flags, but did the civilian salute.  Boys noticed and after a quick discussion, it was decided the troop would be full uniform, shirt, belt and pants.  BSA hats optional, patrol neckers required.  I guess they didn't like the way I looked.  One of my older boys had full uniform, other had no uniform.  I think the discussion went well.

[frankpalazzi]

Much ado about nothing here.  If the theme is pirates,and the boys want to do this, let them.  The boys should be commended on their unity.  It might be respectful to remove the bandanas during flag ceremony---with the SPL giving the troop the command "Uncover!"  That'll disarm the "Uniform Police", for whom I've never had any regard for anyway.  And no, there are no headgear "rules".  If someone finds such, please let me know.

[Beavah]

 

Just remember that privateers, i.e. pirates, buccaneers, plied their "trade" on international waters plundering, pillaging and murdering people for personal gain, while indicating no allegiance or loyalty to any government or code of law.  Is this an appropriate way to show American citizenship as a Scout?  Oh, but it's FUN!  Some people think burning crosses is fun too.  One need be heedful of the message they convey by the actions they take.

 

Aaargh!  Yeh need to go back to Sea Scouts, matey!  (And seriously, was a KKK reference at all appropriate?  )

 

Privateers are given letters of marque by a nation-state.    The United States commissioned many privateers during the Revolution and the War of 1812.   Those seamen were patriots, and were in many ways more effective at disrupting British commerce and supplies than the regular U.S. Navy.

 

On this Fourth of July we owe a debt of gratitude, and perhaps even our Independence, to the courage of the American privateers.  I reckon they're a fine example for our scouts, eh?  They were the Minutemen of the sea.

 

Beavah

Edited July 4, 2016 by Beavah

[ianwilkins]

If I knew it was pirate bandanas all round, I'd probably try and get a pirate captain's tricorn hat or something, maybe for your SPL son that's running it, or maybe just for me.

 

We have fabric tubes over here trade name of Buff, non trade name possibly multifunctional headwear, I would expect you can get them with skull and crossbones, ah yes...

 

http://www.buffwear.co.uk/buff-adult-headwear/original-buff/skull-amp-crossbone-buff

 

Bit pricey though.

 

Actually, not that unusual to see the odd scarf worn heretically as a bandana over here. And I know you can get skull and crossbone neckers.

 

Ian

[Hedgehog]

If I knew it was pirate bandanas all round, I'd probably try and get a pirate captain's tricorn hat or something, maybe for your SPL son that's running it, or maybe just for me.

 

We have fabric tubes over here trade name of Buff, non trade name possibly multifunctional headwear, I would expect you can get them with skull and crossbones, ah yes...

 

http://www.buffwear.co.uk/buff-adult-headwear/original-buff/skull-amp-crossbone-buff

 

Bit pricey though.

 

Actually, not that unusual to see the odd scarf worn heretically as a bandana over here. And I know you can get skull and crossbone neckers.

 

Ian

 

 

SPL son made decision that the SPL and ASPLs would wear the same bandanas -- the patrols are around 8 guys and the bandanas come in packs of 12, so there was no need to spend more money on something different for them.   Also, his idea of servant leadership led him to decide that being SPL or ASPL shouldn't entitle them to something better.  For me however, he has strongly recommended:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019I3II8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1K41AF3BILUFC

[desertrat77]

Much ado about nothing here.  If the theme is pirates,and the boys want to do this, let them.  The boys should be commended on their unity.  It might be respectful to remove the bandanas during flag ceremony---with the SPL giving the troop the command "Uncover!"  That'll disarm the "Uniform Police", for whom I've never had any regard for anyway.  And no, there are no headgear "rules".  If someone finds such, please let me know.

 

+1

[vumbi]

Yah, that's creative, eh?

 

Are yeh really lookin' for a "rule" on this, @@Hedgehog?  Good heavens, why?

 

Scoutin' is a kids game, and this is a classic youth leader choice.  I bet da use of pirate headscarfs in your troop will be more "uniform" than da use of the uniform.     It will bring a sense of identity and teamwork that's exactly what we want to encourage, particularly at camp.  It will be fun.  It will make your troop stand out for its spirit.  Your kids will talk about it for years.

 

I'd let it be.  It will be good fun for awhile, and good scouting.  I reckon I'd actually join in and figure out what to bring to help the lads lash up some piratical camp gadgets.

 

Or, if for some reason yeh really don't think it's a good idea or fits da image the Scoutmaster/Committee/CO wants, then just say "no".   You don't need a "rule" to act like an adult.  Yeh just do it.  The boys will respect yeh a lot more if you stand on your own two feet and don't try to hide behind some remote BSA regulation.

 

In that case though, given da camp theme, I reckon yeh need to put on your "fun" hat and be ready with an alternative.  Maybe old school USN caps from da era of the Barbary Pirate Wars.   Your troop could be da anti-piracy navy at the Pirate Camp, with a mission to win every contest/battle against all da other "pirate" troops!

 

Beavah

Agree with Beavah, why on earth would you even worry about something like this...things must be pretty good if this can cause some anxiety.

JoeBob, those neckerchiefs are worthless as bandanas. That's one reason we make our own neckers, large enough to actually do something useful (like first aid, etc.). We've never been 'tut, tut'ed' by anyone for it, at least not to my face.

[ianwilkins]

For me however, he has strongly recommended:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019I3II8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1K41AF3BILUFC

 

I think I have something similar after pirate fancy dress...at an explorer scout camp.

[meyerc13]

Here's what I predict would happen if you did this:  After the first day's flag ceremony, one or more adult leaders from other units will complain to the Camp Director.  To avoid controversy, the Camp Director will take your SM aside and ask him to ask the boys not to wear them to flags again, since it offended some people.

 

I say this because I was at Philmont a few weeks ago and helped staff the second annual BSA National Roundtable (the final project for the Effective Roundtables class).  One of my classmates felt it would be best if we used a little known variation on the flag cermony - moving the flags from the stage down into the audience, in which case the US flag stays on the Right hand side of the audience (rather than to the right of the podium, because by being on the floor the flag is part of the audience).  This was done to make it easier for our Cub Scout age color guard to figure out where to go with the flag (personally I disagreed with this feeling, but I was alone in that).  We had at lest three people who felt so strongly about this being wrong that they complained not only verbally, but also on their comment cards (quite strongly worded in fact).  If, like me, you've never heard of switching the flag like this, see here:  http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/1st_floor/flag/1bfb_disp3.html

 

My point is... don't mess with flag ceremonies.  Some percentage of Scouters will get up in arms over it.

[John-in-KC]

Off to summer camp this thread goes.

[JasonG172]

We did Neckers one year.  Totally Fine

[Back Pack]

Ironically there is no evidence of bandannas be used widely as headgear by pirates or buccaneers. This was added later to the mythology as garment itself did not reach Europe (Portugal) until the 16th century and were not popular with men in England (as a neck covering) until the 18th century. Maybe the troop should wear the leather hats these sources reference?

 

https://sites.google.com/site/realpirates000/home/historical-topics/clothing-and-accessories/bandanna 

[desertrat77]

Here's what I predict would happen if you did this:  After the first day's flag ceremony, one or more adult leaders from other units will complain to the Camp Director.  To avoid controversy, the Camp Director will take your SM aside and ask him to ask the boys not to wear them to flags again, since it offended some people.

 

I say this because I was at Philmont a few weeks ago and helped staff the second annual BSA National Roundtable (the final project for the Effective Roundtables class).  One of my classmates felt it would be best if we used a little known variation on the flag cermony - moving the flags from the stage down into the audience, in which case the US flag stays on the Right hand side of the audience (rather than to the right of the podium, because by being on the floor the flag is part of the audience).  This was done to make it easier for our Cub Scout age color guard to figure out where to go with the flag (personally I disagreed with this feeling, but I was alone in that).  We had at lest three people who felt so strongly about this being wrong that they complained not only verbally, but also on their comment cards (quite strongly worded in fact).  If, like me, you've never heard of switching the flag like this, see here:  http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/1st_floor/flag/1bfb_disp3.html

 

My point is... don't mess with flag ceremonies.  Some percentage of Scouters will get up in arms over it.

 

I'm sorry you and your classmates had to endure the carping by those nitpicking scouters.   I've got stronger words to describe their actions, but this is a family forum.   One word is "chicken" and the other begins with "s."  (salad?)

 

They must subscribe to that school of thought "I've never done it that way = it's wrong."

 

This kind of stuff goes on everywhere in the BSA.   Then we wonder why scouters up and quit one day.