Excluding the unchurched

[TAHAWK]

We have recently been told that there is a troop, whose CO is a Roman Catholic church, that excludes or would exclude any boy who does not identify a religious faith as part of his Duty to God.

 

Before discussing what the B.S.A. and the Roman Catholic Church in the United States say on the topic, what is the members' experience with that issue?  

 

Does your church, temple, or synagogue exclude boys who do not identify as belonging to a religion?

 

 

Next, should the a boy be excluded on the sole grounds that he does not profess membership in a religion?

[qwazse]

Presbyterians (the COs with whom I have most experience) interpret "religious affiliation" quite broadly. So this has not been an issue that I've observed. However, I have heard this brought up and roundtable re: EBoRs. So there must be some troops that reckon this way. No idea if the practice came from the CO or committee.

My church (through its youth ministry) actively seeks out unaffiliated youth. (Those of Christian upbringing make the worst converts!)

This may be one of the reasons they are hesitant to sponsor a pack or troop. The membership policy strikes them as a veneer of religiousess. The BSA is rife with precisely the duplicity similar to that which has made them recently change denominations.

Therefore, I'm inclined to prefer youth who do not profess membership in a religion. (Although I try not to find fault with those who do.)

Edited June 20, 2016 by John-in-KC

[fred johnson]

Just like anywhere ... there are units that do their own thing. Generally Roman catholic units do not require being catholic. The only issue.would be if the scout or.family criticized the church. Even then it is probably a polite conversation; not a you must leave result.

[King Ding Dong]

I thought there have always been COs that limited membership to their own religion, some LDS or Jewish troops come to mind. I don't even see an issue with them allowing certain flavors and not others. (The old joke about the Baptist jumping off the bridge and his negotiator finally pushing him off comes to mind). Same with LGBT, they can take them all or select only certain letters.

 

As long as they own it and are not coy about it what is the problem? A BOR is not the time to find out. In your particular case I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Pope has an issue with their policy but if that is a battle they want to have, let them.

 

When National sets these kinds of restrictions and start determining membership standards is when people get upset.

Edited June 18, 2016 by King Ding Dong

[TAHAWK]

Please read the OP.

 

 

For example, does excluding the unchurched miss an opportunity to evangelize those who were excluded?

 

 

Remember the "For every 100 Scouts" sheet that claimed that seven found religion because of joining a Scout unit?

[MrBob]

Please read the OP.

 

 

For example, does excluding the unchurched miss an opportunity to evangelize those who were excluded?

 

 

Remember the "For every 100 Scouts" sheet that claimed that seven found religion because of joining a Scout unit?

 

Those who are "unchurched" probably DON'T want to be evangelized at - otherwise they'd be IN a church already, no?

[TAHAWK]

And if they never had the opportunity . . . ?

 

That old 100 Scouts list said 14 had never been in a church until they joined Scouts.  Do you have a better source of statistics? Lots on the Internet but little agreement.

[Stosh]

Those who are "unchurched" probably DON'T want to be evangelized at - otherwise they'd be IN a church already, no?

 

 

10% of religious people come from families with no religious background.  That's 1 out of every 10 boys that are "unchurched"

[King Ding Dong]

Those who are "unchurched" probably DON'T want to be evangelized at - otherwise they'd be IN a church already, no?

Nonsense, boys join Scouts because they are looking for God, not Adventure. Just look at all the BSA marketing materials. Revivals, pastors with their arms over the boys shoulder huddled in a corner to be born again, prayer groups, throngs of teens shouting WWJD. That's the Promise of Scouting. Boys hate adventure, have always hated adventure and will hate adventure until the end of time.

[T2Eagle]

We're a Catholic CO, we don't have any restrictions on who can be in the unit.  As far as boys go I can't imagine excluding any youth for that kind of reason.  Frankly, I don't think I'd stay with the unit if they did.

[qwazse]

And if they never had the opportunity . . . ?

 

That old 100 Scouts list said 14 had never been in a church until they joined Scouts.  Do you have a better source of statistics? Lots on the Internet but little agreement.

I can't recall a single family in our CO joining that church through scouting. (I can think of one who left due to conflicts within scouting that forced the IH's hand.)

That said, for sponsoring scouting units, the CO is highly regarded in our community.

 

Those who are "unchurched" probably DON'T want to be evangelized at - otherwise they'd be IN a church already, no?

i have not found that to be the case. They don't want to be shouted at from a street corner (most days). They do want a friend who they trust living out their faith and occasionally inviting them to join in.

 

... teens shouting WWJD.

WWJD? Most days: Hiking, camping, sailing.

[Stosh]

Or holding them back from advancement when they aren't even a part of the church's membership.  They'd have boys that were never able to advance beyond the Scout Rank only because they would be forbidden to do a 1 hour service project. 

 

This is not adding or subtracting from the requirements, it is simply making all the advancement process null and void.

[qwazse]

Or holding them back from advancement when they aren't even a part of the church's membership.  They'd have boys that were never able to advance beyond the Scout Rank only because they would be forbidden to do a 1 hour service project. 

 

This is not adding or subtracting from the requirements, it is simply making all the advancement process null and void.

Wow, Luther, just pound those 95 theses!

Before anyone rants at the absurd context, the policy as described in by the other thread is to suspend service projects for a few months. Poor little 8th grader if he's taken two years to advance to Scout and can't take the heat because he has to wait until the end of the term.

[Stosh]

 They start at 6th grade, then 7th, then at the end of 8th they get Confirmed.  That means they have to wait until they are old enough to get into Venturing to get Tenderfoot.  How is that three years a "few month's" wait?

 

I'm not much for this S->FC in 1 year push, but waiting until they are confirmed before they do a service project?  Doesn't sound much like any BSA unit I've ever come in contact with.  I'm thinking it is a tad out of bounds from the whole advancement dynamic.

 

Either this unit is beyond rogue or I'm reading this all wrong.  I hope I'm reading it all wrong.

 

By the way, Pope John XXIII fixed the last of the 95 Thesis. 

Edited June 19, 2016 by Stosh

[qwazse]

Well it wouldn't be he first time I've read a policy charitably. That's my mode of operating. Rather that than ask for a rule!

 

The original post was with respect to Eagle projects. So I took it to mean that many 8th graders would have made upper ranks by then.

 

On the other hand, bean-counting service hours for the first few ranks is fairly new. So maybe BSA moved these scouts into the nuisance.

 

Popes as peacemakers, what have they been reading?