Cub Scouts and Facebook

[NJCubScouter]

I guess my problem in dealing with this subject is that I don't really know very much about Facebook. I do have an account but I use it rarely. I have five "friends" but I don't really know what that means, except I guess I can see some things on their pages that non-"friends" cannot see. To my knowledge I have never used Facebook to communicate directly with anyone. All of this is probably why I periodically get anguished messages from Facebook asking me to sign on so I see something that it is very urgent that I see, and occasionally I comply, but I usually can't figure out what was so important. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

 

So with my relative ignorance of Facebook as a backdrop, I have read the BSA's social media guidelines, and I see no prohibition on "friending" anyone. I do see a clarification that a one-on-one private communication between an adult leader and a youth member is treated like any other one-on-one contact, in other words, it is a YP violation. What is unclear to me is whether "friending" someone necessarily results in one-on-one private communications. Can anyone who actually understands Facebook shed some light on this?

[ScoutTrainer]

Thanks Everyone for your comments and feedback.  

 

I guess one thing from all of the comments that really stuck with me is the comment by BSA Heretic regarding honesty.  These Cub Scouts are 9 years old.  The absolute minimum age for Facebook is 13.  So, the parents, in allowing this, are sending a message to the Scouts that it is "ok" to lie to accomplish what you want.  

 

Honesty is a point in the Scout Law.  In my humble opinion, "friending" someone who obviously lied about their age to create the account would also be condoning the lie.  I think, on that principle alone, the Leaders, including myself, should decline the friend request.

Edited June 12, 2016 by ScoutTrainer

[Beavah]

I guess one thing from all of the comments that really stuck with me is the comment by BSA Heretic regarding honesty.  These Cub Scouts are 9 years old.  The absolute minimum age for Facebook is 13.  So, the parents, in allowing this, are sending a message to the Scouts that it is "ok" to lie to accomplish what you want. 

 

Yah, hmmm....

 

Just so you're aware, the only reason Facebook and other organizations have this rule is because of a federal law that was poorly written, eh?   The COPPA Act. 

 

Da regulations for the COPPA Act allow for parental permission for younger kids, so the parents are perfectly within their rights and the intent of the law.   One could also argue that excessive regulation that interferes with a parents' right to protect or make educational choices for their kids is quite a bit of overreach, eh?

 

Either way, they're doin' nothing wrong.  The law explicitly allows younger kids with parental consent.   And as things go, in a world where families are often spread across a wide geographic area, Facebook allows kids to keep in touch with Grandma and Grandpa, and Cousin Fred, and Aunt Petunia.   It's a kindness, and it helps keep families strong.  

 

Beavah

[DuctTape]

I would agree with Beavah if the terms of use explicitly stated under age kids with parental consent, which I understand would be allowed under the law (poorly written or not). Fb is mandated to follow the law, but still may have additional restrictions. There are plenty of online forums and such designed for kids which allow for young kids to sign up with parental consent. Fb is not one of those. Thus, the scout is being dishonest by entering a false DOB and clicking they agree with the TOS.

[andysmom]

I know parents who have created Facebook accounts for their under 13 year old kids, so I wouldn't assume the young scout is lying about his age.  Many parents want their kids to be "popular" and social media gives them the opportunity to interact with people from the relative safety of their own homes.  Do I agree with it?  No, my son does not have any social media accounts.  As an adult leader I have chosen not to accept friend requests from any of our scouts, however I know outstanding leaders who are friends with the scouts.  Nothing I have seen forbids it (unless you are sending private messages) but I would suggest to really think about who your friends are and who their friends are.  I certainly don't want any of my scouts to see something on my Facebook wall that may have been posted or re posted by one of my friends that may be considered offensive or worse. 

[Beavah]

I would agree with Beavah if the terms of use explicitly stated under age kids with parental consent, which I understand would be allowed under the law (poorly written or not). Fb is mandated to follow the law, but still may have additional restrictions. There are plenty of online forums and such designed for kids which allow for young kids to sign up with parental consent. Fb is not one of those. Thus, the scout is being dishonest by entering a false DOB and clicking they agree with the TOS.

 

Yah, da problem for Facebook is how do yeh verify that the online "parent" is really the parent, eh?   Across 190+ countries?   The law was written back in da late 90s and passed in 2000 or so.  Pre-social-media.  It hasn't been updated since,  which leaves Facebook with a liability conundrum.   It's clearly OK under the law for parents to allow kids to have accounts, and it's clearly impossible for a service with a billion odd members to vet whether an online person is actually the custodial parent, eh?   Smaller, US-only English-only sites try if they're education-related, but that's not da same.   Most of those sites would just go bankrupt when hit with any liability.

 

So parents exercise their rights, and Facebook winks.   Someday if da Congress actually decides to do its job, perhaps they'll get around to updatin' the law. 

 

Anyways, tryin' to tell parents what they can do with their kids is always a losing proposition for a scouter or a scout unit.  It's even more of a losing proposition if yeh start accusing other parents of lying and cheating.   Yeh just never ever want to go that way.

 

Beavah

[Tampa Turtle]

Younger kid never. Older kid maybe if parent is OK and I friend both of them. Keep everything in open. I have friend-ed some former scouts.

[wdfa89]

something to consider is appearance of favoritism.  while not a perfect parallel when I was in command I didn't friend any of the folks in my unit unless I could friend them all--because i didn't want to create the appearance of playing favorites when it came to assignments, deployments, discipline, whatever.  Again, it is different in a Scout unit but what if one of the boys an ASM or SM friends gets a coveted position and the one who doesnt and isnt a friend points that out--or a non friend is disciplined.

 

probably extreme examples.  I think beaver makes some good points about engagement but when i think about potential appearance problems and the society we find ourselves in today I would lean towards not friending.  And I know this is greybeard, get off my lawn stuff but kids are spending way too much time in front of screens (i know mine do) so I dont want to encourage it (as futile as that quest may be)

[DuctTape]

Beavah,

 

The law isnt the problem. If Fb wanted to, the TOS could allow younger than 13 y/o users. They don't. In fact the TOS explicitly states that no one under 13 can use Fb let alone sign up. It requires one to enter false personal information for an under 13 y/o, also a TOS violation. There are others who are prohibited from having accounts, and using Fb too. So this isn't an issue with the law, kids and parents ARE being dishonest. I do agree that calling them out on it personally is not productive. That is not what we are doing here. If a parent reads this and is offended by realizing their dishonesty, that is their issue, not mine.

[Beavah]

Beavah,

 

The law isnt the problem. If Fb wanted to, the TOS could allow younger than 13 y/o users.

 

Nah, it can't under the law, eh?   Not without a means of gettin' verified parental consent.  That's the issue.

 

Zuckerberg would love to allow it formally.  He just can't given da current legal environment.  So parents exercise their rights and make their own decision, knowin' that da chairman and CEO of Facebook agrees with and supports them.

 

All that's just background, eh?   Da real answer is that you will not help Scouting by calling fellow parents dishonest, or tellin' 'em that their kids can't/shouldn't have social media accounts.   So don't even go there!   Accept that the kids have accounts with da permission of their parents and that older boys and adults will have their own accounts even if yeh disagree.   Welcome to the new century!

 

Then move along and do somethin' more fun!

 

Beavah

[DuctTape]

There are other social media outlets which handle it quite well. Some of which are actually linked to parents Fb accounts. It can be done, and is done. Regardless, condoning lying is not what I would do. We can agree to disagree that dishonesty ik ok in this instance. Little johnny can be in contact with grammy and aunt Bea without resorting to Fb.

[Beavah]

Regardless, condoning lying is not what I would do.

 

And that's fine for your son(s), eh?  But tryin' to make an issue of it for other families just ain't Courteous.   Da OP seems to want to make an issue of it for other families, and that's a sure way to cause unnecessary ill will in her cub pack.   Far better to go help organizing da popcorn sale for the fall than worry about Billy Otherkid havin' a Facebook account. 

 

Beavah

[Stosh]

Looking the other way is not a proper way to view the Oath and Promise when one sees one ignoring it.  Ever SM is responsible for checking whether or not a Scout is adhering to Scout Spirit.  It is NOT discourteous or inappropriate for a Scouter to point this out as to why he is not going to approve Scout Spirit.

[ScoutTrainer]

Absolutely not trying to make an issue out of this for any of my scout families. This went way off track. All I asked originally is if anyone had any thoughts on this related to YP or G2SS as pertains to leaders friending Cub Scouts on FB. I do not police my Scouts or their family life unless it come down to signs of abuse or neglect (which this clearly is not).

 

Please do not make assumptions about what I am trying to do when all I did was ask opinions.

Edited June 16, 2016 by ScoutTrainer

[DuctTape]

I am not makin an issue about it for any of my boys or parents. I am only saying here that in general it is not demonstrating Trustworthiness. There is a large gap between advocating and encouraging its use and waggin fingers at others. I am not in support of either. As a Scouter I am supposed to exhibit traits as an example, to me this means not poopooing lying, or even advocating for it on a public forum as it being ok. I will remain courteous and not say anything to any particular scout or parent. I will also exhibit trustworthiness by answering any question about young scouts using fB as I do not support it and why.