Patrol Accounts

[blw2]

The other current thread on dues and the like made me think of posting this.... but didn't want to hijack

I think I've posted about this before, but it's on my mind and I'm thinking of proposing this to the committee soon, before proposing it to the scouts.

 

ok,this is a developing idea

partially dependent on what tools we have for it....  I'll try to explain....

first the back story

• Dues are paid annually.  A big check, approx $100 every year up front.  Covers dues + the troop "activity fee"
• Typical fund raising efforts, goes to general scout funds OR fundraising for a specific even will be spread equally into all participating scout accounts
• Additional payments from parents/scouts are credited to individual scout accounts to cover camp grub, summer camp fees, etc...

Now for the part about the patrol accounts.

• Before my time, they started a practice where each scout is supposed to bring $1 to every meeting.
• Each patrol has a money pouch that is given to the patrol by a committee member for the meeting, and that $1 goes in it.  The pouch is maintained by a committee member.  When the total pot gets "big enough", the money is deposited into the bank, general troop account.  This money might be used for a special troop activity such as a pizza party, or it may be used just as part of the general fund....TBD
• I was told this whole thing was just a way to "teach the scouts responsibility"

I'm personally opposed to the whole idea, because it's redundant, and because it's not really giving the scouts any real responsibility or authority as it is now.  It really isn't "owned" by the scouts.

   ..but I think it would rock the boat too much with the adults to propose stopping it.  

So instead, I want to propose that the money collected by each patrol, stays with the patrol.

 

What I would like propose is this, or something like it perhaps:

• Each patrol get's their pouch.  It is their responsibility to bring it to the meetings and keep up with it. (either the PL, or some other designee)
• Each scout continues to bring his $1 dues
• periodically (maybe every troop meeting, or once a month, or whatever is decided) the patrol will report the balance to the troop scribe, who will report it to me, the treasurer. 
• Once the balance gets to whatever threshold is deemed appropriate... let's for example say when it gets to be $50, a deposit will be made to keep the money in the bank.
• The patrol, at their discretion, can decide on how to spend the money... based on approval of course....
  • This money can be used to pay for the monthly grubmaster's budget on camp outs.  They can spend as much as as little of it as they wish
  • Patrol might decide they want to buy themselves some new equipment with it.
  • Patrol might decide that they want to save up and have a patrol outing at the indoor rock climbing gym
  • patrol might decide they want to have themselves a pizza party
  • etc...
  • they can pull the money from the bag if they have enough (for the grub master on a camp out for example), or request through the scribe to get it from the committee

  As I said, this is a developing idea..... just a way to make this $1 per meeting thing have some teeth.

 

I'm open to any ideas, suggestions, or re-directs you might have.... to help propose this in the best light possible!

 

[King Ding Dong]

All this cash in scouting is really starting to anoy me. They should be using Bitcoin.

[Stosh]

We don't do dues.

 

All TROOP fund raisers, the money is split between patrol efforts and troop 50/50.  If a patrol chooses not to do the fun raiser, they simply go without getting any patrol funds.  If Patrol A raises $100 and Patrol B raises $50, $75 goes to troop, $50 to Patrol A and $25 to Patrol B accounts.

 

All PATROL fund raisers, the money goes to the patrol accounts, and those accounts are recorded and monitored by the adult troop treasurer working with the patrol scribes.  The patrol scribes should know at all times how much money they have in their account.

 

Troop funds pay for registrations, badges, etc.  General troop funds.  Maybe paying for leaders to go to summer camp that don't provide free for 2 leaders, any short-comings or surprises the patrols might run up against, etc.

 

Patrol funds pay for tents, stoves, chuck boxes, wood tools, dining flies, camperships to cut down to the cost of summer camp, etc. They learn about money by handling their own patrol budgets.  I suppose if the boys wanted to collect dues, they could do that if they wish.  They usually just prefer to do fund raisers. 

[blw2]

I don't necessarily disagree with that approach Stosh.... about no dues and all

BUT I don't really find myself in a place right now to consider such a thing.

I doubt if I could have much success with even just doing away with this buck-a-meeting thing.

 

So I'm just looking for a way to put some teeth in it and make it mean something .... to the adults AND to the scouts.

 

I feel like the idea is a good one, but I'm sure there is room for tweaks or even other different directions

and I'm looking for advice on how best to propose the idea..... first to the committee and then to the scouts.

[King Ding Dong]

..... first to the committee and then to the scouts.

Hmmmm. May have more success if it something to boys want to change. Just seems like it should be the other way around.

[Stosh]

Hmmmm. May have more success if it something to boys want to change. Just seems like it should be the other way around.

 

Yeah, I'm kinda the boys first approach, too, but then again, I'm always taking heat for doing things backwards when it comes to scouts.

[Beavah]

Yah, @@blw2, take a break, grab a beverage, and then sit back down and read your original post, eh?

 

There's an awful lot of adult-driven stuff there, yeh know.  Yeh tell 'em how much.  Yeh tell 'em how (a "pouch" they have to bring to meetings?  really?).  Yeh set up a whole accounting/reporting system that goes back to da adult treasurer.   Yeh have to have adults approve purchases, etc.

 

And yeh haven't even really identified any reason they might genuinely want to do this themselves, eh?

 

Gack!

 

How 'bout this instead. 

 

Yeh encourage the lads to think about stuff they might want or want to do as a patrol.   Cool new stove?  Tiki torches for their campground?  Special trip just for them?

 

Yeh help 'em budget for it and set dues to whatever they need to accomplish that.

 

Yeh let 'em handle the money themselves.  Paypal, square, cash, patrol fiat currency exchangeable for girl scout cookies, whatever.  

 

Yeh coach da scribe or youth treasurer on how to help guide and support da patrols/patrol treasurer.

 

Yeh get out of the way.

 

Honestly, da weekly dues thing I think is just adult-run nonsense.  There's no real-world organization that has weekly dues.  What a nightmare that would be!   Annual is most common for organizations, followed by monthly.  And yeh never ever have to show up in person to pay your dues in cash.  Prepare the lads for da real world, and stop givin' 'em arbitrary adult make-work.

 

Beavah

[King Ding Dong]

I think the weekly dues thing is a holdover from Cubs. Although I never used them I remember many BSA forms had a column for "dues paid" for each cub.

[SSScout]

"Tain't the way it usta be, begorra.

 

Camping trip:   Patrol gathers at the church at 6am, Patrol Treasurer (!)  collects $4. from each Scout,  Scouts load gear/packs into dads' cars an we take off. Some of the collected money goes to the driver for gas (35 cents a gallon!), the rest goes to the designated cooks (first class requirement?) who stop at the Safeway on the way and buy what is needed (no refrigeration) , if there is something left in the Patrol box (dry milk? Catsup? Canned Peas? detergent? ) from the last  O/night, that is considered.  There is the budget: What money is in hand.  Not enough?  Put the donuts back.   

 

Yearly Dues:  Collected at the weekly Patrol Meeting (before the Troop meeting,  another day, whatever ), I seem to remember maybe 50 cents a week..  Patrol Treasurer or PL, keeps the Patrol money (ours was in a pipe tobacco pouch) and uses it for Patrol outings, or at least the down payment.  A per person amount was paid to the Troop for the Scout dues, too.   That is what was expected of us.  "A Scout pays his way".    **I found out later, that our parents also paid something to the Troop to help us along, but it was made clear that we had to earn our way,  I had conversations with my buddies about mowing lawns, doing chores, etc. , allowances vs  hourly wages for stuff done.

 

What would that translate in today's dollars?   Camping trip coming up don't forget the ice for the fresh milk and OJ. , how the groceries are bought, THEN they are "billed" for their share.   Dues?   All upfront, in September. No 12 year old can afford $125. all at once. Well, some, maybe, but still.   How do they earn it?   How CAN they earn it?  

[Stosh]

They can do troop fund raising or they can do patrol fund raising or they can go out and work a part-time job.... or they can whine to mom and dad and they can pay for it. 

 

So there's 8 boys in the troop.  All but one NEED to raise money for their outings.  Does the single scout who can afford to just have mom and day pay his way obligated to fund raise for the other boys?  Here's where the true measurement of leadership comes into play. How does the well-to-do scout take care of his boys?  "Help other people at all times."

 

If one is not doing servant leadership training, they are missing out on a ton of leadership lessons for the boys.

[King Ding Dong]

or they can go out and work a part-time job....

I think the Labor Dept. is going to have an issue with that until at least 14.

[Stosh]

I mowed lawns, shoveled sidewalks, raked leaves, ran errands, shopped for others, spaded over gardens long before I was 12.  At 12 I added a morning paper route to the routine (legal work permit). At 12 I also added washing windows for the city library and at 14 I landed a job in the local grocery store every night after school so I could drop the paper route and window washing.

 

I paid for everything I did in scouting with my own money except the initial full uniform for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

 

in 1968 when I went off to college I had $7,000 in debentures drawing 14% interest.  That would equate to about $47,000 in today's dollar value.

 

My mother taught me how to fill out my own tax return when I was 11 years old. 

 

I guess we just grew up quicker and figured out things faster than kids today.

[MrBob]

I mowed lawns, shoveled sidewalks, raked leaves, ran errands, shopped for others, spaded over gardens long before I was 12.  At 12 I added a morning paper route to the routine (legal work permit). At 12 I also added washing windows for the city library and at 14 I landed a job in the local grocery store every night after school so I could drop the paper route and window washing.

 

I paid for everything I did in scouting with my own money except the initial full uniform for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

 

in 1968 when I went off to college I had $7,000 in debentures drawing 14% interest.  That would equate to about $47,000 in today's dollar value.

 

My mother taught me how to fill out my own tax return when I was 11 years old. 

 

I guess we just grew up quicker and figured out things faster than kids today.

 

Times change, laws change.  And there's no time for all those side jobs when you're playing football, soccer, basketball, lacrosse, baseball, band, orchestra, and trying to squeeze Scouting in somewhere.  Oh, and school.  Can't forget school.

 

If parents would quit trying to live vicariously through their offspring, maybe said offspring would have more time for menial labor... but not my kid, he's the next Troy Aikman!

[blw2]

Hmmmm. May have more success if it something to boys want to change. Just seems like it should be the other way around.

yep

 

Yeah, I'm kinda the boys first approach, too, but then again, I'm always taking heat for doing things backwards when it comes to scouts.

....and yep.

 

No arguments here.... except that this is a very adult driven idea at the root.  It's a hill to skirmish over....The committee moms are the ones owning this thing.   Sometimes they don't care so much as to what the scouts "want".  They're the adults and they know best....

 

Yah, @@blw2, take a break, grab a beverage, and then sit back down and read your original post, eh?

 

There's an awful lot of adult-driven stuff there, yeh know.  Yeh tell 'em how much.  Yeh tell 'em how (a "pouch" they have to bring to meetings?  really?).  Yeh set up a whole accounting/reporting system that goes back to da adult treasurer.   Yeh have to have adults approve purchases, etc.

 

And yeh haven't even really identified any reason they might genuinely want to do this themselves, eh?

 

Gack!

 

How 'bout this instead. 

 

Yeh encourage the lads to think about stuff they might want or want to do as a patrol.   Cool new stove?  Tiki torches for their campground?  Special trip just for them?

 

Yeh help 'em budget for it and set dues to whatever they need to accomplish that.

 

Yeh let 'em handle the money themselves.  Paypal, square, cash, patrol fiat currency exchangeable for girl scout cookies, whatever.  

 

Yeh coach da scribe or youth treasurer on how to help guide and support da patrols/patrol treasurer.

 

Yeh get out of the way.

 

Honestly, da weekly dues thing I think is just adult-run nonsense.  There's no real-world organization that has weekly dues.  What a nightmare that would be!   Annual is most common for organizations, followed by monthly.  And yeh never ever have to show up in person to pay your dues in cash.  Prepare the lads for da real world, and stop givin' 'em arbitrary adult make-work.

 

Beavah

 

and yep, it is a very adult-run thing.... and it surely is nonsense, in a way.  It's clearly adult at the root of it.  I don't have to re-read anything to understand that!

 

& Your counter proposal is really exactly where I'm trying to steer this thing..... or more precisely to steer it so that the scouts can run with it this way if they so choose..... and if they don't choose it'll be in a better position to make it go away.... OR to change things up with regards to how much to collect, how to report, how to bank it, etc....  And that's really at the base of my thinking.... to tactfully steer it out of the adult's hands and into the scouts'  I think that is the point that I have gotten across very well here....

 

Remember, I'm a new committee member here.  I'm not the SM, I'm not the CC.  I've not been on the committee as long as those that like the practice.  I can't just proclaim it and make it go away. I'm up against some key folks here that think this is a great idea as it is.  What I can do though is to propose a way that gives the practice more teeth that should in my estimation make things even more attractive for the adults (except that I do predict there will be hesitation about letting the scouts hold "real money") ....and at the same time lets the scouts have something that they can actually work with.