Courts of Honor Controversy

[Greeneagle5]

At a recent COH our SM's Minute turned into a sermon lecturing the audience on why he insists on using the inappropriate verse to Scouts: " I'll kill you if you don't receive your Eagle award !!" The CC has repeatedly visited this controversial behavior w/ the SM...but he has his agenda, period. The CC is wood-badge trained and is gently shoving the SM towards a boy run Troop, which he is fighting.This is causing frustrations among parents and the ASM corps who like the SM but feel he needs to bend his attitudes, at times. The SM is very well liked, long tenured with theTroop,but this situation is creating Troop tensions which spill over into Scout activities.

Whats the best way to get a handle on this situation ? I need input........Thanks !

Greeneagle5

[dan]

Remove him

Not Now

RIGHT NOW.

 

If a leader said this to my son I would be on the phone with the SE.

 

(This message has been edited by dan)

[Greeneagle5]

This COH was very important to me due to one of my son's Patrol members was receiving his Eagle...........The SM's personal agenda was an unappreciated distraction to this special occasion, for me and I'm sure the Eagle's family and honored guests.  Not to mention 10 new Scout families at their 1st COH !!!

Greeneagle5

[Twocubdad]

So what's your chief complaint with the SM? That the troop isn't Scout run? That he's pushing advancement too much? Or that "I'll kill you" is inappropriate?

 

In any event, it would seem that "gentle shoving" isn't working.

[Sparkie]

Sounds like he's doing more harm than good, especially if the moral of the troop is going down. I agree with twocubdad that gentle shoving isn't working. Easier said than done, but he has to either respect the views of the com. and stop saying this, or be replaced.

 

Greeneagle5 stated "The CC has repeatedly visited this controversial behavior w/ the SM...but he has his agenda, period". Sounds like a dictatorship to me. If your going to be a SM or CM you have to be flexible to the views of others, even if you disagree (been there, done that ).

 

I would let him take his ball and go play somewhere else. JMO

 

Sparkie

 

P.S. Is this leader trained??

[acco40]

The Committee's primary responsibility is to support the Scoutmaster and the Scouting program. If the committee feels that the Scoutmaster does not follow the Scouting program it has a problem. I would bring the COR and CO into play if dealing with the SM does not work. The COR/CO would then decide if a new SM is needed or not. THe COR/CO may decide that the committee needs to support the SM! Good luck.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Freedom of speech is fine in an open forum. There, others get to object to a subject when they disagree and all sides of an issue may be voiced and many perspectives shared.

 

Words of killing in a Boy Scout Court of Honor where the presentation is one directional and totally inappropriate should bring an immediate rebuttal from any responsible individual in the audience and an abrupt end should be brought to such an irresponsible presentation.

 

The authorities could sort out the particulars later.

 

FB

 

[Eamonn]

I am having a hard time believing that anyone would let this pass his /her lips.

Please do not allow the fact that someone has been around for a long time lead you to think that they are right. There are I'm sad to say some leaders that just never really worked out what Scouting is all about and have managed to keep doing it wrong for a very long time.

I know that if I had been at the event I would have said something to deflect his remark and then found the right place to read him the riot act.

When I was done giving him a part of my mind I would have made an appointment with the Committee Chair the Charter Rep. and maybe if possible the Executive Officer to meet as a group as soon as possible. At this meeting I would let them know how upset I am and let them know that whatever is going on in their meeting hall /room is what it is but is not Scouting,and will never be Scouting. It sounds as if the Chair. is already painfully aware of this.

I don't know if the Scoutmaster can change his ways? I would ask him to explain to the entire troop that he has made a mistake and apologize for what he said.

If he isn't trained he needs to be as soon as possible.

If he isn't willing to change his ways I would hope that the charter organization would thank him for his past services and let him go. Sad as that might be.

Eamonn

[KA6BSA]

We hear of some strange events on this forum but to me this one is just unbelievable. A SM telling the parents at a COH he is going to kill their kids if they don't earn Eagle? Where is the YPG trainer for this troop? But if it actually did happen the SM needs more than just a YPG lesson... This is like telling a bomb joke to airport security, not only is it not funny it is a serious offense needing immediate action.(This message has been edited by KA6BSA)

[Rooster7]

I agree that in todays sensitive times, a Scoutmaster ought to know better. Nevertheless, words are merely words. Volume, tone, inflection, facial expressions, body language, emotion, etc. all convey the messageNot to mention the context in which something is said, the personality of the person delivering the message, and the personalities of those in the audience. Do you want all of your words to be taken literally? I think its a little silly for us to be expressing our shock when we lack so many details. Does anyone truly believe that the SM is planning to hunt down one of these kids? Ask the committee to tell him to watch his words, but call off the witch-hunt. If theres more to it, then tell it but from where I am standing his sin was not that great.

 

If the real controversy is his inability to let the boys have control of the troop, then I'd say voice your complaint at the next Committee meeting and let them handle it.

[EagleInKY]

I'm crowing with the Rooster on this. I keep trying to imagine what was said, and just can't picture any other way than the SM meant it more "tongue in cheek". I can't imagine that in any way he meant that he would literally kill a boy for not making Eagle.

 

Haven't we all said something along the lines of "boy, I'll beat you like a drum if you ever do that again"? Not ever meaning it literally, but just to express the fact that we really don't want that to happen EVER again.

 

We live in such a PC society, I realize we've purged most of those sayings from our vocabulary. Honestly, I can't remember the last time I ever said anything like that. But I'm sure I have.

 

Therefore, I would look at is more of a coaching opportunity for the SM. Sit him down, and explain to him how it was perceived by some, and that he needs to avoid those types of phrases, and come up with more positive ways to encourage the boys to reach their goals.

 

As for the boy-led issues, that requires more work.

[Fuzzy Bear]

KA6BSA and Rooster 7,

 

These are the times that we live in or haven't you heard? Denial of the times doesn't change the message.

 

If the guy had put on a clown suit and a funny hat and had been riding a unicycle while juggling multi-colored rubber balls and delivered that message, I would have confronted him.

 

You probably dont have children, so you may believe that others can pay any price while you give lessons in speech and communication but it is not so for parents in today's world. The "witch hunt" is vigilance and a request for people to be decent to each other, especially their children.

 

Since you believe in quiet objectivity, you would fit nicely in the pews of the decent God fearing Catholic Priests that sexually abused an estimated 11,000 young boys. Their costumes were not funny their communication was somber but their words belied their actions. Knowing full well what acts these people had committed and knowing the full extent of their psychological perversion, responsible trained individuals, allowed these degenerates to continue unabated for years. Their timidity in resolution simply moved the problems around to prey on other unsuspecting children and families. These are resolutions of denial in the extreme.

 

Once again, the times have changed and when a message is heard, respond.

 

If you are wrong, then apologize. The guy may be attempting humor that lacks content.

 

FB

 

[Rooster7]

Fuzzy Bear,

 

First - Get off your horse so we can speak eye to eye. I have four children and I dare say I care as much about them as you care for your own.

 

Second - I lack your passion for persecution because I don't think we enough facts to warrant that response. I did agree that someone (i.e., the committee) should tell him to watch his word choice. Beyond that, I think you are on a hunt.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Haven't we all said something along the lines of 'boy, I'll beat you like a drum if you ever do that again'?"

 

I'd be willing to be a dollar that Bob White, OGE and mayb Eaamon have never said a thing like that in their life. Maybe Fuzzy Bear too.

 

I threaten unruly children, including Scouts, with having to ride on the roof of my car on the way home. Not one has ever responded in horror and nearby adults have offered help in the form of duct tape and rope.

 

One thing that is ommitted is the reaction of the Scouts. Did they feel threatened? For all we know, this is part of a running joke between the Scoutmaster and the Scouts.

 

 

[Hunt]

I agree that tone is important--children can distinguish jokey, outrageous threats from real ones. My son knows that if I say, "Do that again and I'll pound you mercilessly," I am joking--but if I say, "Do that again and there will be no PlayStation for a week," I'm serious. He knows I would never pound him mercilessly--just like the scouts presumably know their SM is not going to kill them. All that being said, you have to watch what you say to other people's children, and this goes over the line. (But ask yourself which of the following would actually be more hurtful to a scout: "If you don't make Eagle I'll kill you." or "If you don't make Eagle I'll consider you a failure.")