Scout Behavior Question

[JillJill]

Hi you guys. I am new to the forum. Looks like there will be lots of useful information for me here.

 

My questions revolves around a Scout that on a recent campout lined up some powder from a project they were working on and made a spectacle of acting like he was snorting it like cocaine. This was in front of numerous Scouts. The Scout that did this is currently our Troop SPL!

 

I have strong feelings about this action (I had 2 sons on the camping trip) and I don't believe this behavior in any way upholds the Scout Oath or Law.

 

There are some leaders in our troop that seem fine treating this sort of "boys willbe boys".

 

Just curious if any of you have dealt with a similar situation or have advice or thoughts on how to handle this.

 

Thank you!

[Sentinel947]

Welcome. Similar thread to your question that is still actively being discussed here. http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/28190-behavior-problems-what-is-expected-how-to-deal-with/page-4?do=findComment&comment=438477

[Stosh]

Welcome to the forum.

 

I'd be inclined to do a visit with the boy about leadership, taking care of his boys, setting an example for the younger boys and then have the PLC deal with the issue of retaining or removing him from the position of SPL.

 

  There are plenty on the forum here that will, of course, be of a different opinion.

[JosephMD]

That darn backspace button, I lost a wall of text.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about it beyond a short discussion about setting the example and how that wasn't the right example to be setting.

 

If the scouts think he isn't living up to the respnosbilities they expect of their senior patrol leader, they should replace him. 

[David CO]

Yes, I have dealt with this sort of thing before.

 

First of all, you need to know that my Chartered Organization is a school.  We would treat this behavior exactly the same as we would if it had occurred in the school cafeteria.  Can you imagine how your kids' school would react?

 

I have said this before, so I'll try not to belabor the point.  I don't see why boys in a scout activity should be held to a lesser standard.






 

Edited May 24, 2016 by David CO

[qwazse]

Be slow to judge, quick to challenge.

Simulating drug abuse is not the same as condoning it.

However, the SPL should be challenged to think how his impromptu sketch came off on scouts and parents who saw this. Certainly if a family has lost a loved one to drug or alcohol abuse.

 

I agree with @@Stosh that a supplemental SM conference is in order.

[MattR]

I'd say this scout is trying to get a laugh, but making a bunch of adults angry also can be fun.

 

I recommend thinking carefully about what battles you want to get involved in. He's acting unclean, he's not being unclean. He's not swearing, he's acting like a fool to get some scouts to laugh. Yes, for a new scout this kind of joke can be shocking, but a lot of jokes are. At campfires there seems to be a limit on poop jokes and even boys cross dressing (because the skit needs a damsel in distress, or even a pregnant women) but the scouts like telling them. Now, does a scout cross dressing in a skit mean he wants to cross dress or is he just trying to get a laugh? Jokes require tension and a boy scout pretending to snort coke is similar to a scout pretending to blow his shorts out from eating a lot of beans. It's slapstick.

 

I'd weigh this event against what this scout is like when he's doing his job as SPL. Does he help the other scouts? Is he friendly to all? Do the younger scouts look up to him in other situations? If so, I'd say let it go. If you want, talk to your sons about pretending, and jokes and that nobody is even close to saying cocaine is okay. At most a very short talk from his SM is more than enough for this situation. If, on the other hand, he's self centered and just trying to show off that he uses illegal drugs while not in scouts, then that's another situation. It really depends on what the scout is like when he needs to be serious. It's important for scout leaders to have fun as well as be serious. This might not be an ideal way to have fun, but it's not that bad.

[T2Eagle]

I would call it a bad joke, in poor taste, done poorly.  

 

As the SM the SPL is my responsibility and I would have called him on it if I had seen it.  I would have told him that it was not proper behavior and that he knows better.

 

But there are also a lot of things it wasn't: it wasn't mean or directed at anyone, it didn't demean anybody or any group of people, it didn't involve foul or abusive language, and it wasn't sexual.  If someone came and told me about it at a later date I might or might not say anything directly, that would depend a lot on the history of the scout, my evaluation of whether this was part of a pattern, and whether I thought that my failure to say something would increase the likelihood that he would do something that boneheaded in the future.   

[Cambridgeskip]

Sounds like a tasteless joke. If seen in the act best dealt with by a quizzical raise of the eyebrows. If found out about later a quiet word in his ear along the lines of "don't do that again sunshine".

 

No great panic.

[JosephMD]

Yes, I have dealt with this sort of thing before.

 

First of all, you need to know that my Chartered Organization is a school.  We would treat this behavior exactly the same as we would if it had occurred in the school cafeteria.  Can you imagine how your kids' school would react?

 

I have said this before, so I'll try not to belabor the point.  I don't see why boys in a scout activity should be held to a lesser standard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can tell you exactly how it was handled in my middle school when I was a kid.  Part of my wall of text that I backspaced out of last night was my own experience doing that as a middle school student, in school.  A couple of us crushed up smarties, snorted them through a dollar bill.  One of the assistant principals called us in, asked us a couple of questions, called us idiots, and told us it wasn't a good idea and that we probably shouldn't do it again.  Like he had to tell us, I still remember the unpleasantness that was snorting crushed smarties into your nose.  I'm happy to say I've never snorted anything since. 

[Ankylus]

I am with Stosh. I don't think the behavior is egregious enough to warrant expulsion or suspension from the troop. And if he were just a scout acting up, it would be less of a deal. But he is the top youth leader. A part of the leadership is leadership by example. At a minimum he needs to understand that this is serious misconduct and that he could lose his position over it. I am OK with him losing his POR, so long as he has an opportunity to redeem himself and run again in the future. I am also OK with him keeping his position as long as the message is sternly delivered. At a minimum, he needs to apologize to the troop for his leadership failure.

[Stosh]

I can tell you exactly how it was handled in my middle school when I was a kid.  Part of my wall of text that I backspaced out of last night was my own experience doing that as a middle school student, in school.  A couple of us crushed up smarties, snorted them through a dollar bill.  One of the assistant principals called us in, asked us a couple of questions, called us idiots, and told us it wasn't a good idea and that we probably shouldn't do it again.  Like he had to tell us, I still remember the unpleasantness that was snorting crushed smarties into your nose.  I'm happy to say I've never snorted anything since. 

 

Aaaah, I bet that brought a tear to your eye! 

[Beavah]

Yah, @@JillJill, welcome!

 

Can I ask how you feel it violated da scout oath or law?

 

Not knowin' the lad and not having witnessed the event, I'd tend to agree with da majority, eh?   I wouldn't nail a boy to the wall for this.  I might tack him to the wall.    Dependin'.  Probably I'd just pull him aside at some point to have him think through age-appropriate foolin' around.

 

Sometimes skits like this can teach a valuable lesson, eh?  Generally speakin', the boys aren't glorifyin' drug use when they do a sketch like this.   They're makin' fun of it.   It's a bit of "look at me, I'm being an idiot!"   That's the lesson that the younger boys get from it too, eh?  At least at a non-verbal level.  Usin' drugs is a being an idiot.   

 

Run an exercise in your head for just a sec.  There's this older boy SPL in da troop, who your son comes to think is funny, and cool because he goofs around with da younger guys like pals instead of treatin' 'em like little kids.   Down the road a bit when the troop does its annual meeting night about da dangers of drugs and alcohol and that older boy says

 

"Using drugs is stooopid.  Never, ever, not once do that, and if yeh see a fellow scout or another friend even thinkin' about it your job is to stop him. "

 

Do you think your son will listen?

 

Sometimes Boy Scouting works because boy-behavior and boy-talk is a lot better than adult lectures.

 

Beavah

[Stosh]

It is pretty much irrelevant what is done with the SPL, but one could turn this into a learning experience for the PLC.  Do the PL's really want this guy supporting their work?  I have a different leadership philosophy than most on this forum, but if a PL isn't doing his job or is embarrassing his patrol, they can get someone in there that will do the job.  Same for the SPL.  Not setting a good example, put someone in there that will.  If he gets ousted, he can redeem himself later when he takes on a more mature attitude.  When will that happen?  When the boy decides to grow up.  This just might be his wake-up call.

[Hedgehog]

I agree that this isn't cause for overreacting but instead is a teaching moment. I would have a talk about being Morally Straight (not using drugs), Mentally Awake (thinking about the effect your actions have on another) and leadership (setting an example). My concern with it being addressed by the PLC is that is an ADULT RESPONSE. If an adult didn't make a big deal about this, the PLC would't care. A simple talk with the boy would let him know not to do that the next time and to consider how he would react if he saw another scout do that (a simple "that's not appropriate in scouting" would go a long way.