Overtime

[Stosh]

This is nothing more than socialism in disguise.

 

Person A works 50-60 hours for a salary and benefits.

 

Law changes

 

Now Person A works 25-30 hours receives no benefits which he will need to pay for or get fined by the government.

 

Now Welfare Person B works the other 25-30 hours, receives no benefits which he will need to pay for or get fined.  He finds that his welfare check is more than the part-time job so he quits.

 

Person C works for a temp agency and will come in and cover the 25-30 hours and get skills.  They can stay temporary benefit-free forever if they want to. 

 

Now Person A needs the money so they take on a second part-time job that doesn't pay benefits, but now the cost of daycare is covered.

 

Except for the loss of productivity on the part of the business, this will hurt only the employee(s).  Basically they will lose their benefits and need to go to the government for increased retirement and medical assistance.  That means the employee through payroll deduction will lose even more with an increase in "taxes" skimmed off by the government to pay for the extra cost of providing benefits.  The biggest boon to the increase in minimum wage is the higher take the government gets on the deal.  You make more money, you get bigger payroll deductions and pay higher taxes, either way the government wins.

 

So how much more money is the government anticipating in getting at the increase income of time and a half increase in income per person?  Another increase in payroll deductions and income tax revenues.  The government is ecstatic

[desertrat77]

(Jumping in not having read the entire thread....)

 

The edict is a futile gesture.   Pure egotism with little foothold in reality.

 

Just ask the McDonald's and Wendy's workers who rejoiced for a moment about their big pay raise that was mandated by law.   Their joy was temporary once they realized they were unemployed.  Many went from low wages to zero income, and were replaced by self-service kiosks.

 

Businesses, including the BSA, will figure a way to work around it.   Fewer employees.   More work for those "lucky" few that remain.  Less service to the units.  

 

Now an interesting dynamic may occur internally to the organization.   I know several civil service employees.   Their reactions to the last involuntary furlough were telling.   Many of them had a habit of staying late, getting work done on their own time.   They weren't getting overtime pay, but they felt the need to stay on top of their projects.   Professional pride.

 

Now they leave right at the official end of the business day.   If it doesn't get done during business hours, it will get done tomorrow.   Or the next day.   (Maybe that's not such a bad thing!)

 

Switching gears:   summer camp.   I think @@cyclops summed it up well.   It's a job but it's not about the pay.  

 

As a former camp staffer, I can honestly say I would have worked for free.   When we filled out our tax paperwork at the beginning of each summer, we were told that we fell into the same tax category as migrant workers, for what it is worth.

Edited May 20, 2016 by desertrat77

[scoutldr]

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-the-40-hour-workweek-2015-10

[Beavah]

This is nothing more than socialism in disguise.

 

Person A works 50-60 hours for a salary and benefits.

 

Law changes

 

Now Person A works 25-30 hours receives no benefits which he will need to pay for or get fined by the government.

 

Now Welfare Person B works the other 25-30 hours, receives no benefits which he will need to pay for or get fined.  He finds that his welfare check is more than the part-time job so he quits.

 

Person C works for a temp agency and will come in and cover the 25-30 hours and get skills.  They can stay temporary benefit-free forever if they want to. 

 

Now Person A needs the money so they take on a second part-time job that doesn't pay benefits, but now the cost of daycare is covered.

 

Except for the loss of productivity on the part of the business, this will hurt only the employee(s).  Basically they will lose their benefits and need to go to the government for increased retirement and medical assistance.  That means the employee through payroll deduction will lose even more with an increase in "taxes" skimmed off by the government to pay for the extra cost of providing benefits.  The biggest boon to the increase in minimum wage is the higher take the government gets on the deal.  You make more money, you get bigger payroll deductions and pay higher taxes, either way the government wins.

 

So how much more money is the government anticipating in getting at the increase income of time and a half increase in income per person?  Another increase in payroll deductions and income tax revenues.  The government is ecstatic

 

Yah, hmmm....

 

Yeh do realize you're contradictin' yourself, right?   "The government" can't be gettin' more income tax revenues if da employer is down to a part time worker and a temp.

 

Let me make a different prediction, eh?  We'll see a moderate drop in da use of overtime and a mild increase in employment.  McDonald's will still need to have a manager on duty, eh?  To get reliable manager they'll still need to offer full-time employment.     Businesses will adjust, and the world will go on. 

 

Now, I reckon yeh can put on a Libertarian hat and pretend that anything that protects workers is a form of "socialism", eh?   Safety regulations, bargaining rights, etc. 

 

Of course by that definition democracy is a form of socialism, eh?  Can't let all those pesky workers vote for representatives and laws to protect themselves and their families, can we?   It interferes with da right to contract!

 

I'm tapping out on this one. Life to too short to argue economics with folks that wont grasp the basics n

 

Yah, right back at yeh. 

 

Beavah

Edited May 20, 2016 by Beavah

[SSScout]

Observations:   My son is an "agricultural worker", therefore exempt from much of the FLA.   He is paid a very good wage for a 22 year old, hourly, but no overtime.  His boss often provides lunch, training (on the job),  trips to business fairs, personal encouragement and  other undefinable benefits of  agricultural work.  He does work "seasonally" , dependent on the weather and crop needs.  14 hour days, then 5 hour days....  as needed and necessary.

When I was in college, I remember two part time jobs:  The first was in the professional grade theater on campus. Because of the size and rep and quality of the theater (broadway shows!) the stage crew was paid "guild" wage. Adjustment for after midnight.  Best paid job on campus. 

The second was for a national grocery chain. First time I ever joined a union, and it was an education.  Work Rules. Shop steward. Union meetings.  But after speaking with the "old timers", I understood the importance of the union to the "worker bees" that staffed the  cash registers and stocked the shelves and freezers.  Good pay, respect from the managers, and they no longer could require "work after hours".  I graduated and moved on before they "automated" , thus reducing the staff need by 1/3.   The union (and rampant publicity) was the only thing between the company summarily firing folks and getting them retrained and reassigned.  Walmart anyone?  

I am also reminded of something called the Weimar Republic....

[scoutldr]

"Weimar Republic"..does that count for Godwin's rule?

[Tampa Turtle]

I want to know how does this affect my ASM Pay? Do I get time and a half at summer camp?

[Stosh]

Sorry Tampa, only SM's get time and a half for summer camp.

[SSScout]

Y'all gotta do your  time...    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kWiaMw2Ynw

[John-in-KC]

It's always fun to see people walk into Beavah's den and not realized he's a very well trained attorney...He's no fool and he gets paid to know stuff to win arguments.

 

We now return you to this ongoing debate.

[Stosh]

A organ grinder's monkey can be very well trained and at the top of his profession, too.