Unofficial Knots on Venturing Uniform

[JosephMD]

Curious, what is the take on the "unofficial" knots on the venturing uniform?  I'm not talking about spoofs, but the third party knots that can be bought online with the dark green backgrounds, representing Eagle, Arrow of Light, etc. 

[Stosh]

According to BSA those are knots worn by adults.  I would say no to both.  If the boy has earned his Eagle, he wears his rank on his uniform until he turns 18 then changes to an adult knot.  If the boy has earned AOL he wears the strip below his rank on his uniform until he turns 18 then changes to an adult knot. 

 

While a youth he wears the youth insignia and changes to an adult.

 

When he turns 18, he can wear the adult knots on his Venturing uniform just as any other adult.  But he wears the official tan backed knots indicative of Boy Scouting just as the Boy Scout adult wears his Cub Scout color backed knots earned as a Cub leader.  There is no such thing as an Eagle or AOL Venturing knot that is worn by a youth or an adult for that matter.

[qwazse]

Me, personally, I use standard issue knots on both my tan and green shirts. Got no problem with someone who takes the trouble to order ones with green backing. The insignia guide does not specifically speak to the background color of most common knots.

 

As for the youth, uniforming is not a method of venturing. So ... the crew officers decide the best practice for their unit.

 

The few in my crew who have worn a national uniform (usually as a council VOA officer) have not bothered with knots for two reasons:

• advancement is not a method of venturing, and at this point in their career most have only earned advancement-related knots.
• their female counterparts have no way of displaying a comparable knot for parallel honors that they've obtained (e.g. GS/USA Gold).

More discussion may be found here: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/11/20/in-the-loop-a-guide-to-square-knots-and-how-to-wear-them/

[scoutldr]

I earned Eagle as an Explorer in 1970, hence my avatar.  Back then, BSA issued knots in official Explorer green to match the uniform.  Since that is the one I was awarded, following the logic above, should I not be wearing the dark green Eagle knot on my current BSA uniform?  Of course, back then, there were WAY fewer knots and the backgrounds were irrelevant (ie, not part of the knot identification).

[JosephMD]

... he wears his rank on his uniform until he turns 18 ...

 

 

 

In another discussion, somewhere, I was having, or reading, this came up.  The latest venturing award recognition uses the left pocket where the rank would go.  For a venture scout doing both, it seems that they would have to choose.  I think there was a consensus in that discussion that the uniform policy hasn't caught up, but wearing the rank pin on the left pocket flap was probably the right way to go if the scout wanted to display both. 

 

This was actually one of those questions that I had no good reason to ask.  I still have a couple of years before my son turns 18, I was just curious.

 

My son's crew has no uniform requirement.  The adviser does wear one, but nobody else did.  Mine wanted the uniform, I think it had a lot to do with NYLT and his otherwise busy scout calendar, many of his fellow NYLT staffers are venturers and wear the national uniform, and, he'll be staffing that then heading to his troop summer camp with only about a 12 hour break in between. 

[Stosh]

When one is a member of a troop and a crew they need two different uniforms.  One does not wear a Sea Scout uniform with an Eagle rank sewn on.

 

I have three different uniforms for Scouting, one as UC, one as SM, and one as CA.  Even then I don't wear knots on the UC shirt, but I do on the SM and CA uniforms.  I wear what is appropriate for the activity I am involved with.   

[JosephMD]

When one is a member of a troop and a crew they need two different uniforms.  One does not wear a Sea Scout uniform with an Eagle rank sewn on.

 

I have three different uniforms for Scouting, one as UC, one as SM, and one as CA.  Even then I don't wear knots on the UC shirt, but I do on the SM and CA uniforms.  I wear what is appropriate for the activity I am involved with.   

 

Yes - they do need two different uniforms.  I'm no board with that.

 

I have two, one as a MC, long sleeve, and one as a CA (I'm assuming CA means, Chapter Adviser, right), short sleeve.  My lone arrow of light knot was recently joined by a scouters training award someone handed me a while back. 

 

I have mixed feelings about uniform bling.  It can be a conversation starter with our youth, or it can just be a distraction, or, something in between.  At round table, there are folks with so many knots that if the wore the world crest it would be on the back.  As an adult, I find it interesting, some of them have good stories behind them, but not sure how the youth see it.  When I was a youth in the 80s & 90s, seeing a scouter with 4 or 5 knots was a lot.  One scouter I know has his meeting uniform with a ton of knots and special insignia, and another for camping. 

[Stosh]

CA - Crew Adviser, dark green uniform, grey pants.

[Eagle94-A1]

I woudl not call them "unofficial knots" unless they are new knots, i.e. NESA Lifetime Member Eagle Knot. I would call them "REPRODUCTION KNOTS" ( emphasis) sicne at one time BSA did make knots on a white background, navy background, and kelly green background. Don't know if they made them in a light blue background for Air Scouts or not.

 

I have 2 sets of white reproduction knots for my Sea Scout whites, a set of navy repros for when I either get a Sea Scout Centennial Uniform or service blue uniform, and I just got a set of green repros to go on my Exploring shirt. I would have sewn on the  VENTURING strip when they were handing htem out in '98, but the shirt had faded a tad bit and the strip would be VERY noticeable.

[jr56]

Since technically they are not "official" knots, you would have to get approval from your local SE.  I asked mine, and he didn't care.  His opinion was, if you've earned it , wear it.

[TAHAWK]

Since technically they are not "official" knots, you would have to get approval from your local SE.  I asked mine, and he didn't care.  His opinion was, if you've earned it , wear it.

No Scouter, Council employee or Council can authorize departures from B.S.A. rules regarding insignia.  If you plan on departing from the rules, don't bother getting void approval from the council Executive.

 

 

 

The following pages contain our uniform policy as taken from the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. The chapters contain applications of the regulations to each program area. Neither the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, the policy, nor the program applications may be added to or changed in any way unless approved by the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America through its Program Impact Department.

[qwazse]

Yeah, @@jr56, this is one of the last things I'd bother an SE about (unless there's a discount for bulk purchases and he'd likely go in on you for a set ).

 

Nobody in the venturing world is gonna bother you for trying to color-coordinate. (There aren't that many of us left to make a fuss over ).

[vumbi]

TAHAWK, he didn't say the SE 'authorized' anything, just that the SE didn't care. I wouldn't either. Worrying about infractions at this level would border on insanity.

But this topic caused me to wonder...has anyone tried embroidering the knots directly onto the uniform? These days it wouldn't be that hard, you'd just have to have one knot design and then multiple thread colors. Just wondering.

[TAHAWK]

What was said included: "You would have to get approval from your local SE."

 

Unofficial knots seem like a relatively minor issue, but the local SE, local President, and local Board all lack authority to approve squat when it comes to insignia.

[Eagle94-A1]

Does anyone have problems with Scouts and leaders wearing vintage uniforms? I know for my wife's 1950s den mother uniform, I could not find all original patches from that era. I had to use a reproduction or two to make the uniform "authentic." And even then, I still could not find reproductions I could afford for everything. Yes, I'm using vintage 70's/80s fully embroidered red numbers instead of yellow and blue numbers of the 1950s.

 

So I have no problems with Ships' Stores and others who make reproductions of the pre-1970s Sea Scout white background, Sea Scout navy background, and Exploring green background. It's not economically feasible for BSA to make the Sea Scout background knots ( heck last time I ordered Sea Scout stuff from national, it had "Sea Explorer" on the label, and this was approx. 11 years after the Exploring/Venturing split).

 

Ditto with the green background knots. I have no problem with them. I only wish all of my knots were available with the green background since I'm not restricted to 6 like the Sea Scout uniform, and my green uniform is the one I use on the district/council level on occasion.