Advice on how to handle this, please?

[King Ding Dong]

 

If the troop your in isn't providing your son the opportunities he needs to do scouting then I strongly encourage him, with you, to check out other troops in the area that may be better able to provide him the opportunities the program should have to offer.

+1

 

I wish I dumped my first troop 1 year before I did. If a talk with the CC and SM don't produce immmediate results, run do not walk away.

[s'morestashe]

Well, he is participating in lots of things, just not campouts. Almost every weekend, he is helping out at an Eagle's project or doing some kind of service for the charter organization. He says he loves Boy Scouts so I guess that's what we'll go on for now. I got a little worried because one of his buddies is dropping out because he thinks Boy Scouts is boring. My son is kind of easy to please. If you feed him at the end of the hard work, he's good.

 

As for pushing to let him go on these campouts, he's never done anything like that so I have no idea if it would be a disaster or not. He's a pretty average kid so if they say 14 year olds and 1st class, then I don't know if he would be an exception. 

 

Thanks for all the advice.  

[Krampus]

Scouts should be about exploring and trying new things, even if you fail miserably. If BSA thinks they can do it the unit should let him.

 

I did my first 250 miles on the AT at 13. I did 100 miles on the C&O canal at 12.

 

You'd be surprised what young kids can do it given a chance.

[Hedgehog]

My son has been in Boy Scouts now for about 7 months. He hasn't progressed much in rank requirements or been able to go on many outings (told not appropriate for his age/rank). There is one campout coming up where the hike in to camp is only 5 miles and apparently a moderate one, so he will get to go to that one but then it's back to the wilderness survival type of camping. The problem is I don't see how he will get rank because 1. it will take a long time for there to be enough appropriate campouts and 2. they don't cook as a patrol, but each person just brings their own cliff bars or whatever to most of the campouts.

 

My son has gone to the planning meeting (he is the only one from the new boys to go because it's held at 9:00 on a school night). He has made some suggestions but they are shot down because they are too tame or they've already done that.

 

If rank activities aren't done by the troop at meetings or campouts (because the boys who plan the activities don't need to do x,y,z), how is it done? Just at summer camp?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

From what I understand, our troop was a lot like that before I joined.  The old guard did two backpacking trips and one cabin camping trip each year.  Backpacking trips were every scout for themselves for cooking and the other trips were Troop (i.e. adult) cooking.  

 

As others have said, what your troop has is not the optimal BSA outdoor program.  From reading the other posts, I can see that there are the old scouts and the new scouts and the old scouts control the agenda to the exclusion of the new scouts.  Simply put, if the troop continues this way it will fold because the new boys will quit.

 

There are two options that have been suggested that I agree with.  The first option is to go to the SM, CC, etc. and talk to them about your concerns.  There are ways to structure campouts so that there are a variety of activities for all skill levels (note, I didn't say age or rank).  For example, we have a backpacking trek into summer camp. It will be around 21 miles, the bulk being on Friday and Saturday.  Some scouts can join us 4 miles in on Friday and other can meet us at the campsite on Saturday night and do a 4 mile hike into camp.  I'm in agreement with the idea of no limits on scouts -- we had a sixth grader and two seventh graders do our 50 miler with us last summer and it really was the first multiday backpacking trek for the sixth grader.

 

The second option is the patrol campouts.  You just need two adults and you are good to go.  That probably makes sense because you won't change the culture of the older boys in the troop.  Step up, slap on an ASM patch and build the troop the right way starting with the new guys.

[SSScout]

Hello ,  s'morestashe!  Welcome to the land of  Omagogamogagag, which is Kickapoo indian for "many suggestions, many opinions, your choice ultimately". 

 

If I hear you right, you have joined a Scout Troop that is mostly (all?)  a bunch of senior Scouts that like to do Big Things, and view young Scouts as a drag on their speed/distance/adventure.  It also sounds like the Troop leadership has embraced the idea of "Boy Led"  to the extreme.    And it is not a good extreme, or appropriate to Good BSA Practice.  

You and the other young Scouts (and adults)  must do one of three things:

 *A*:   Talk to the CC, the SM and ASMs, and try to change the  culture to embrace the idea of Older teaching Younger, setting the example and taking pride in Passing the Torch, so to speak. 

*B* : Form a New Patrol, and start doing Patrol Things, with the blessing of the SM and CC. Use your Boy Scout Handbook, and have your New Patrol plan their own hikes, campouts, etc. , slowly learning the skills and knowledge inherent. Make an Axe Yard in somebody's back yard and everybody earn the Totin' hip. Find a Big Back yard (grandpa's farm mentioned above) and set up a long weekend camp.  Parents can bring in supplies as needed.   Invite some of the better (?!)  older Scouts along, to teach .   Express your gratitude and praise their Scout Skills as appropriate.  The few Older Scouts involved might bring the others around to seeing the younger Scouts as the way to continue the Troop tradition, because if they don't, PRESTO! in a few years, there is no more Troop XYZ!

* C* :   Search out a new Troop that will allow (hate that word) your young Scouts to grow in the ideals of Scouting.

 

Like Bob the Tomato said (he had to be a Scout in another life) : " It's for the kids."

[qwazse]

I would +10 @@SSScout's reply if I could.

...  sounds like the Troop leadership has embraced the idea of "Boy Led"  to the extreme.    ...

I'll restate the above because you may have missed the intended sarcasm: They have abandoned the notion of "Boy Led" for "Boy Self-Served". The flawed thinking goes like this:

"If Mr. Cross-over can hold a paintbrush, he's more than welcome on my service project. But, if he's a big unknown on my 20 mile weekend through rocks and bogs, I'm under no obligation to line up an awesome overnight for him, his buddies and their dads at a nice field near my insertion/extraction point." (@@Tatung42, note that it's not just CO's with Troops and Crews).
 

Now, this attitude may have been the result of times that they've planned activities and 1st years never joined them, or when they did most were in tears afterword. Regardless, in a small troop the dynamic has to adjust with every boy who joins. The only question is how much how fast?

 

As far as advancement goes: one overnight (and a few other skills demonstrated/gained) will get your scout to Tenderfoot. The question is, how to make this fun for his buddy as well? All of these Eagle projects? Maybe it's time for your son to ask one or two of those boys (especially the ones in your son's patrol) if they wouldn't mind sparing an evening to help teach them all the ways to light fires, or set up tents in a back yard. Or Saturday morning take them on a hike around town where they can practice carrying full packs and working with a map and compass. Get the SM to approve the plan, and BOOM, it's a scouting event.

[Beavah]

He says he loves Boy Scouts so I guess that's what we'll go on for now.

 

Yah, I think that's an excellent thing to go on for now!

 

If the boy loves it and is fitting in, then he's growin' in all sorts of ways you perhaps can't see yet.   Bein' the workhorse first year boy around a bunch of older boys leads to a lot of growth and maturity just by way of osmosis.  What will likely happen with time is that your son will become one of the primary leaders of the troop, eh?   And in doin' that, he'll no longer be "an average kid". 

 

I'd encourage you to feed the fire at home.   Kids who will work their butts off for pizza can grow quickly, eh?   By all means talk to the SM and encourage him to think about what more your son can do or participate in in the troop, but also ask what he's doin' best at in the troop and then encourage/challenge him to do more of that at home.   Note:  what he's best at, not what he needs work on.   Build on your son's strengths rather than pester him about his weaknesses. 

 

I think you're goin' to find that while scouting/this troop wasn't a good fit for your son's friend, it might be a great fit for your son.  That happens quite a bit.   You've got a good kid, eh?  In extracurricular activities like scoutin' you should follow his lead.

 

Beavah

[vumbi]

Am I the only one who thinks that 9pm is kind of late for a planning meeting?

[TAHAWK]

Lets the old fogies do their old boy stuff, while the younger Scouts do their thing.   Scouting is supposed to be primarily experienced in the patrol context.   The patrol, not the troop, is the basic unit of Scouting program.

 

One of the adults who accompany the Scouts on a patrol campout or hike needs to be Youth Protection trained.  As that is a requirement for all the Assistant Scoutmasters, any one of them (or any adult who has complete Youth Protection Training) will do plus a willing parent, as mentioned.

 

The adults are present as transportation and for safety reasons.  The Patrol leader leads the outing with the help of his Assistant patrol Leader..

[CherokeeScouter]

Find another troop.

[Chadamus]

Am I the only one who thinks that 9pm is kind of late for a planning meeting?

This stood out to me as well. Our Troop meets at 6:30pm. Much more reasonable IMO.

 

So s'morestashe, any update?

[Stosh]

For some odd reason I don't seem to have this kind of problem in my troop.  I have a NSP that does it's thingy with the new boys and TG.  One patrol picked one of the older boys to be the PL so they will not need a TG, The other patrol picked one of their own, but the other older boy will function as TG for that patrol. When I had a broader range of boys in my old troop, the older boys would do their thingy with their patrols and the venture patrols pretty much have carte blanche their with activities.

 

Right now I have 8 NS's that signed on 2 weeks ago and 2 older TF boys.  They pretty much do whatever it takes to have fun.  They are gearing up for summer camp and have already been out camping and having fun.  They took turns at the fund raiser brat sale (2nd one) to help defray the cost of camp.  The two older boys have done the non-mess hall camp and having to set up their tents when they get to summer camp, but have chosen a summer camp with mess hall and mini-cabins to accommodate the imbalance between old and young boys.  The older boys will pick MB's but the younger boys will do the sessions of S->FC while at camp.

 

It's kind of a win-win for everyone.