Two Steps Forward, Two Steps Back.

[Eagle94-A1]

Gut feeling, we are 7, possibly lowest of the low on 6. Funny thing is this. A month after crossing over to the troop as a MC, I was asked to conduct first aid training since I'm a MBC and teach  first aid and CPR at work. With the exception of CPR and AED usage, my boss told me to run those since the trainers are expensive, and brand new when I did this, I let the Scouts teach the skills.

 

I talked to the Scouts about what I expected of them. Then I used their rank as an indication of what they already knew and told them to teach a specific set of skills. So we had some folks who were Second and First Class teaching T-2-1 skills. Overall the kids did a great job. That instance I think the troop was at a 5/4 level, and it was good.

[Beavah]

And naysayer essentially wants it his way or the highway. There was some conflict over this, basically between me and him, and its ongoing. And yes it is affecting the Scouts.

 

 

Yah, hmmm...

 

Nuthin' worse for units than adult conflicts, eh?

 

I'd encourage yeh to reflect a bit on how you may be contributin' to the conflict.   You're writin' a lot about "the naysayer", eh?    If yeh adopt an attitude of conflict yourself, the boys and others will buy into it.   Tryin' to work with folks, even naysayers, is da better lesson.   In a troop, the adults all have to be pullin' together or they'll surely pull the kids apart.

 

Where's the SM in all this?   Often the SM is da fellow with da Vision for the troop, eh?   The one who sets the tone.

 

Maybe I'm talkin' through my hat, but it seems to me that fixin' things in production and fixin' things at the end aren't incompatible, eh?    The reason we have SMCs and BORs is to provide feedback to program folks so that they can do a better job with production... and so that kids get feedback on where they can or need to do a better job themselves.   The two work together.  

 

Beavah

[Eagle94-A1]

@@Beavah,

 

I'm ID'ing the one I'm having trouble with as "naysayer" because someone else labeled him that, and it provides continuity. Trust me I've tried to work with him. Heck I even sees where he is coming from regarding the problem, and I had an idea that incorporated some of the things he wants, i.e. skills review and retesting,  with things I see would improve  the troop by being youth led , i.e. building patrol spirit and allowing those Scouts with the knowledge, skills, and abilities to take ownership on advancement. Specifically having a month of intra-patrol competitions, say Scout Olympics, so that the meetings are fun, build patrol spirit ( which was severely lacking prior to the reorg, but now even more so), and REVIEWS SKILLS ( emphsis not shouting)

 

ASM in question, when I tried to talk to him about the idea says, :" No, I don't want to hear it. I'm done...." and walks off.

 

Regarding the SM, I know his health is bad, and he has been relying on the ASMs for vision, specificllay 1 whose job is challegneing.  It now seems as if the ASM above, who is one of his former Scouts, is now the major influence and providing the vision, especially since I haven't been at the last two leaders meeting because one was doen while I was doing BORs, the other was spur of the moment.

 

 I had a nice long chat with the son while we walked the neighborhood with packs on. STARTING A NEW TROOP IS NOT AN OPTION AT THIS TIME! ( caps are emphasis, not shouting). He has friends in the troop, and wants to stay with them. I told him that if a new troop was to start, I think 2 of his close friends who are already sitting on the fence would jump at the opportunity. Plus some of his old den mates would follow him.  He doesn't want to do that to his current troop and wants to try and change the troop from the inside.

 

His ideas on changing the troop range from moderate to extreme. I admit,I gave him a 3rd option he is not too thrilled about, but realized it needs to be an option.

 

Moderate is  getting a major thorns a roses letter out asking for what the scouts what they like about the troop, what they do not like about the troop, and ideas to fix the troop. Then take those ideas to improve the troop and come up with a plan.

 

Extreme is ignoring any adult mandates and doing their own thing, and having a rebellion. When he made that comment, he then sang a a quote from a song he learned in history class about the French Revolution.

 

More later

[Beavah]

Moderate is  getting a major thorns a roses letter out asking for what the scouts what they like about the troop, what they do not like about the troop, and ideas to fix the troop. Then take those ideas to improve the troop and come up with a plan.

 

Extreme is ignoring any adult mandates and doing their own thing, and having a rebellion. When he made that comment, he then sang a a quote from a song he learned in history class about the French Revolution.

 

LOL.

 

Yah, well, it seems like da lad has things well in hand, eh?   I'd follow his lead. 

 

Sometimes we forget that da things that cause the most growth in kids aren't the smooth, well-run things, eh?   They're the times when the lads face adversity and challenge and have to improvise.    Just like the way the "epic" bad weather campout makes for da best stories (and bonding),  workin' through hard discussions or a rebellion or two also makes for good stories and good learnin'. 

 

Yeh trained him, eh?  Trust him and let him lead!

 

Beavah

[Eagle94-A1]

I'm back.

 

The option I suggested to him is that he runs again for SPL, and if elected do things the way they are suppose to be done. Grant you it's six months away from the next election, they just did them Monday, but  I am putting the bug in his ear.

 

@@Beavah

 

Yes, I helped trained him. I trust him, and I'm willing to let him lead the way. I go where he goes. But with some of the adults now in the troop, I need to quote one of the internet memes I've seen, that actually features one of my Eagles. "We got your six covered."  Yep that meme with the 6'11" Marine LT carrying a guy in the backpack, both armed with M-4s has one of my Eagles in it. They didn't call him BIGFOOT for nothing.

 

EDITED:  I have a bad feeling that one of the adults would sabotage things if my son, or any Scout for that matter, would try to change things that he disagreed with. The troop decided to make custom neckers using triangular bandages, custom patches, and his embroidery machine. To make it easier, the embroiery was just going to put an edge on it and sew the patches on.. Long story short the ASM really doesn't see the need for neckerchiefs, and doesn't like to wear them. The goal was to get enough neckers for the youth for the court of honor. Didn't happen, Next we were going to try and get them for the camporee, 2 weeks after the court of honor.  It didn't happen. And yes, this is the ASM who is being a challenge.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Eagle94-A1

[Beavah]

@@Eagle94-A1, what was da problem with da youth gettin' the neckers?   Oh, ah, just reread that.  It's his embroidery machine.  

 

Easy answer to that, eh?  Just go find someone else with an embroidery machine.    Even if yeh have to pay a bit.   "Well, Mr. Naysayer, you just seemed really busy and we didn't want to take up any more of your time, so we went ahead and did it ourselves.  A Scout is Courteous."

 

It's that sort of "rebellion" that I think is great for kids to learn, eh?  If there's a roadblock yeh don't complain, yeh don't argue or fight... yeh just go around, or over, or under, or through.       It's a good lesson for boys to learn, eh?  It's usually not good use of our time tryin' to change other people.  We've got complete control of ourselves, though, so we can keep movin' things forward.  Then they can either follow or be left behind.

 

The fellow who does the work is the fellow who controls da outcome.

 

Beavah

Edited May 5, 2016 by Beavah

[SSScout]

""If I were to make any suggestion to tweak da current approach, I'd say 2 adult ASMs per patrol is a bit of overkill.""

 

Maybe two Scouts per 6 adult leaders......    

Edited May 5, 2016 by SSScout

[Eagle94-A1]

Interesting conversation tonite at roundtable. Long story short, the Webelos Den leader of the pack that my troop charters tell me that we should get all 12 of his Scouts. He still plans on visiting troops to make sure his scouts find troops that meet their needs though. HOWEVER, he also told me that one of the Bear dads knows the ASM above, growing up in the troop with him back in the day. He's commented that if the ASM is invovled with the troop, he will not send his son to the troop.

 

This is going to get interesting.

 

Going off on a bit of a tangent, WDL was telling me how his older son is having a better time in the troop now, mostly because we were letting Scouts teach for a while.  I told the WDL that my son joined the troop because of him. My son has that scout on a pedestal because of his work at CSDC when my son was a Webelos, and because he ran the meeting my son visited, being given about 2 minutes notice he was in charge.

 

Back on topic, I think I am going to use the lock in and backpacking trip next weekend to talk to the SPL and older Scouts to see what they want.

[Hedgehog]

I vote for a revolution.    Not an open rebellion (those always fail) but a quite one done behind the scenes.

 

You get a lot more traction with scouts than adults when it comes to boy-led.  The idea is almost intoxicating to youth.  Talk to the boys, train them about what boy-led means and what it means to be a leader.  Then, go to the PLC meetings.  Bring up your questions or ideas there or better yet, have scouts bring up your suggestions.  It is a lot more difficult for an SM or ASM to overrule the PLC.  All you need to say is "well, aren't we supposed to be boy-led, i don't see any harm in trying what the boys suggested.  If it doesn't work we can always go back to the old way."

[Eagle94-A1]

I had an interesting 2.5 hour phone conversation with the Level Headed ASM, and the situation IMHO is worse than I thought.

 

The ASM I've had issues with above is not happy with me not only because of my views on how the troop should be run (boy led) and advancement should be done ( select youth (PLC members and a few others) able to sign off on advancement are opposite his,  but also how I discussed the performance of on of his former Cubs as PL of the NSP, and how he really needs to step and be a leader, even if he no longer wears the PL patch.NSP  PL would not listen to TG, and actually was one of the trouble makers. I sat on his BOR ( which I didn't want to do) and asked some very pointed questions about how he did as PL. ASM didn't like that because Tenderfoot doesn't require POR.

 

Anyway I found out that as the ASMs were picking patrols and assigning ASMs to work with each patrol, ASM above made the  comment "I CANNOT WORK WITH [EAGLE94-A1]!" Hence I'm the floater.

 

Level Headed ASM also commented how the SM is starting to lean more towards the Naysayer ASM (Sorry @@Beavah, but that or negative is the only way I can ID him now), which has the Level-Headed ASM seriously concerned. Not only is his son in the patrol that Naysayer is in the ASM for, but he sees the potential for the troop to split apart over the naysayer ASM. One ASM, the one I'm backpacking with next week, already pulled his son out of a camping trip when the naysayer ASM did the menues, duty roster, and shopping list for the patrol and told them that since the patrol was having so much trouble doing cooking and KP,. he woudl wake them up at 5AM so they would finish everything on time.

 

I think I already mentioned that Naysayer ASM told his son, who was suppose to do KP, that he had to pack and take down his tent as soon as he finished breakfast? But I didn't tell you that the Scout said he couldn''t do cooking or KP Sunday morning because dad said they would interfere with his quartermaster duties.

 

More later

[Krampus]

@@Eagle94-A1 come to Texas. We get up at 6:30, coffee is on, we have one ASM who gets up early to make breakfast. The boys get up at 7 and are done by 8:30. If they screw up KP they're cleaning dishes before dinner.

 

We're still strict on some things but we let the boys learn.

[Eagle94-A1]

Back.

 

Anyway, Level Headed and I have some concerns. At the moment, neither one of our sons want to leave the troop due to the Scouts in the troop. But with the lack of patience, the way he took over a patrol's planning process, was influential in reassigning the patrols, and commenting on how only half the troop will be able to go canoeing, I see the troop falling apart and fast.

 

I know my son has commented on how the best scouts are all in one patrol. He doesn't like that the Scouts had no input into patrol selection. At least with the original plan for the troop reorg, the PLC decided to pull names out of cup at random.

 

I was told that while I was working with the AT Scouts, only 5 scouts from the other 2 patrols said they were going on the planned camp out with the troop.

 

I know the comment about 1/2 the troop going on the canoe trip in August worries me. When I mentioned what about the rest of the troop, I was told they could either meet them on the river, or do something else.

 

And i know that one of the dads has some concerns because we are not using the patrol method. His son is one of the plankowners in the troop. He was losing interest until he started teaching Scouts. Now it looks as if the Scout is losing interest. i know part of it is no Philmont trip. But part of it is the adults taking over.

 

Now Naysayer ASM did make a comment about leaving after the AT trip because he's had enough. Don't know if that was an idle threat or not. I personally don't think he will follow through. He's had a long history with the troop before it folded.

[Krampus]

 

[qwazse]

I'm no expert in conflict management, but when I was in a similar position to yours I found the following (shared equally to folks favoring or opposing me) to set the tone nicely:

"I'm not about to be bothered by the burrs up anyone's butt ... Especially yours."

 

Not sure how that would come off to scouters in your neck of the woods. But the attitude carried me along pretty well.

[Eagle94-A1]

@@Krampus,

 

So true. I'd actually take you up on the TX offer if it wasn't for the mother-in-law. We as a family are thoroughly enjoying the normalcy while we can. But a relapse is on the back of our minds all the time.