Dealing with that “slow� scout

[Sentinel947]

Of course you did...you can see all the slow Scouts from the pack of the line.   

Hehe you better believe it. I hike in the back of the group. I know at the ripe age of 22 I'm probably one of the faster hikers (thanks ROTC!!!). 

 

Besides, the back of the group is solitude. Being towards the kids is where you have to listen to all the boys yammering. 

[Stosh]

Of course you did...you can see all the slow Scouts from the pack of the line.   

 

 

Hehe you better believe it. I hike in the back of the group. I know at the ripe age of 22 I'm probably one of the faster hikers (thanks ROTC!!!). 

 

Besides, the back of the group is solitude. Being towards the kids is where you have to listen to all the boys yammering. 

 

C'mon guys, from what I've said all along I'm usually the third person in line.  They'd never trust me to be Sweep! 

[Sentinel947]

C'mon guys, from what I've said all along I'm usually the third person in line.  They'd never trust me to be Sweep! 

Haha. My first philmont crew ended up allowing the slowest hiker to be the sweep. It didn't work. My first Philmont trek could be be a book How not to Backpack: What you shouldn't do on a hiking expedition. At least we were able to follow bear protocol properly, no small feat for that crew... lol

Edited April 20, 2016 by Sentinel947

[qwazse]

... Beyond physical conditioning, this is the only way to make a slower hiker hike faster.

Well ... that and showing him a snow drift with the tracks of the boys coming in the night before, of the lead boys fresh tracks going out, and a bear's paw on top of them.  That boy's been moving ever since!

[jr56]

I found out a long time ago, to keep up a fast pace while backpacking and not tripping over every rock and root, you have to stare at the ground in front of you, and miss everything else.   Take your time and look around.  I was the only person who saw the moose beside the trail on Isle Royale,  everybody else just walked on by, staring at the ground in front of them.

[qwazse]

Do any of you teach the caterpillar method of hiking?

 

Scouts proceed on trail spreading out until the lead has covered about 1000 yards or is coming on a hill.

The lead then stops.

Second scout advances about 50 yards past the lead then stops, 3rd scout stops 50 yards past the second, etc ...  (In tight country or very steep climbs that distance might be 50 or 25 feet.)

The lead only starts hiking once the sweep has advanced past the 2nd.

Everyone continues, stopping when he has hiked that distance past the scout in front of him and starting only once the scout behind him passes and moves past the scout in front of him.

Swapping positions while you're moving is okay as long as you commit to stopping safely once you are ahead of everyone and only starting again once everyone is ahead of you.

 

A party of 10 might get spread out about 500 yards ... each scout always in eyesight of the next. This sets up opportunities to spot game, calm the group, rely on hand signals, give everyone a rest, and keep your fast hikers accountable to the slow ones.
 

I've found this works for city youth who hike infrequently and are more intimidated about the woods than it does with scouts who have a sense that their buddies will be fine no matter what.

[Stosh]

I've never used this, sounds a bit confusing at first glance.  I guess I like the idea of the Sweep being able to keep tabs on one boy and no one ever slips between the cracks kind of thing.

 

However, with that being said, I can see the advantage of this in bear country where the boys would be all spread out over a greater distance and then if attacked, it might mean only one maybe two phone calls home at the most. 

[Eagledad]

My first post was a bit rushed. 

 My bigger concern isn't slow hikers, it's hikers who do not actually want to be there. I love backpacking, but if you're heart is not into it, it's terrible. Combine that with a unmotivated scout who is tired and physically chewed up by any meaningful hiking, and they are going to make that trip a not so fun trip for anybody involved. Philmont is the worst for that, as it's 11 days of hiking...

 

I've never seen the scouts allow the crew to get spread out. I don't know, maybe it's because we are a patrol method (take care of your boys) troop. However, I have experienced scouts like Sentinel describes on many of backpacking crews. They are frustrating because just as Sentinel says, they are miserable the whole trek. I've tried everything, but once they decide they hate backpacking, there is no changing their mind.

 

Typically they figure it out in the first couple miles too; their demeanor changes to someone you never seen before, "a big whining baby". My first experience with such a scout was a 15 year old high school soccer star. One hour on trail he was so exhausted he needed a rest every 15 minutes. I let the rest of the crew go ahead while I coached this scout to move forward with right-left-right-left, only much much slower. BUT! Once we found camp, he had so much energy that he was bouncing of trees. He loved camping and all was back to normal, or so we thought. Once he put that pack on, he reverted back to being sick and exhausted.

 

I have experienced several of these scouts and the one thing they had in common is that they were star athletes back home. I mean athletes with scholarship prospects. My guess is that they were a bit spoiled as stars and was never pushed hard in physical demands outside their respective sport. I don't, it's just a guess. But a scout's dad was on one trek and he had had enough of his son's whining. When his 16 year old track star son decided to stop on the Philmont trail claiming he was going to die, dad let him him have it with a blecture that every member on the crew wanted to give but couldn't. It didn't change the whining sloths attitude, but it sure pumped up the rest of the crew. Normally he is a good scout, he was elected SPL six months later. Being pushed past your normal endurance separates hikers from backpackers.

 

I did experience this same thing from an adult once. After a week of this adults child like complaining, a few scouts started to grumble about this adult once while they were cooking. His son stood up for his dad and you could see it in everybody's eyes that they felt deep empathy for their buddy. Nothing was said again, but I was angry at the adult for doing that to his son. Dad didn't get any better either. He became a SM of his younger sons troop several years later. He hated every minute.

 

We took our shakedowns very seriously as a result these incidents. In general shackdowns help get the crews physicall and mentally prepared for the trek. However, I learned that most scouts are in good enough shape in their normal life to handle even our most physical treks. I started using shackdowns to evaluate and find the Crew members who didn't have the heart for the physical requirements of the trek, but just didn't know. If they don't have the heart and mind for it, nothing can chage it.

 

Barry

[T2Eagle]

We almost always naturally form into two groups.  There are real differences in ability between scouts, it doesn't matter if the difference is from age or conditioning, and there are also just differences in desire.      

 

What is the compelling reason for staying as one group, "just because we're all one group" has never seemed to me to be a self evident reason.  Most of the time the point of the hike is the enjoyment of the journey not just the getting from one place to another, so why make one group miss that enjoyment.  Some guys will enjoy, and/or will naturally just moving faster, and some guys will be happier with the saunter and dawdle.  As long as they're getting where they're supposed to be, what's the problem, there is no ONE CORRECT PACE.  

[Stosh]

No, but there is a benefit of bonding to a group and the slow guys recognizing the needs of the faster guys and vice versa.  Otherwise the lesson take away is that every troop and every patrol needs to be split into two.  I guess that fits nicely into the PC concept that polarization of even the smallest grouping of friends is okay.  We all have our individual goals in life and need to recognize that.  That takes precedence over the concept of community.