Venturers and Go-Carts

[crew671bsa]

I apologize if this has been talked about before but a search of the forums didn't find anything that answered my question.   I am the advisor for a Venturing Crew.  The crew suggested going to an indoor go-cart place as an activity.

 

According to the Guide to Safe Scouting Go-Carts fall under the section on "Unauthorized and Restricted Activities".  The paragraph states:

 

9. Motorized go-carts and motorbike activities are unauthorized for Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs. Go-carting conducted at a commercial facility that provides equipment and supervision of cart operation is authorized upon submittal of a completed tour and activity plan. Participating in motorized speed events, including motorcycles, boats, drag racing, demolition derbies, and related events are not authorized activities for any program level.

 

The facility provides and requires safety helmets to be worn by all participants.  All participants must sit through a safety session on go-cart operations and track rules.   And they monitor the track during operation.   So it seems to me that they should be able to do this activity at this facility as long as we submit a tour and activity plan.

 

However, another adult leader said that they had checked with our council and were told that National said go-carts are unauthorized.

 

I would think that if all go-carting is unauthorized then the statement about "go-carting conducted at a commercial" facility wouldn't be in the Guide to Safe Scouting.

 

Does anyone know what the correct answer is?   Again, this is for a Venturing Crew and not a Boy Scout Troop.

 

Thanks,

Rich

 

 

 

[qwazse]

Have that adult tell you the name of the person who told them this and the source he/she referenced.

 

Until otherwise informed via updated documentation, your quote trumps heresay.

 

Our training used to make clear that Venturing was distinctive in a number of ways including three of interest to youth: girls, guns, and go karts. Our crew did this on several occasions. Not sure if they'll want to do it again as the helmet requirement adds complexity and cost.

 

I swore on the guidelines sheet www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416_insert_web.pdf there a row for go-karts. If I find it on an old copy, I'll let you know.

[Stosh]

Gotta be careful, if the SM finds out your boys and girls went go-karting with their church group, they could get kicked out of the troop.    I don't think I've ever been to a commercial go-kart facility that has helmets. 

 

I do have to admit, most of the go-kart tracks are shutting down due to the high liability costs and the riders not wanting to pay the extra cost to ride.  It's easier to shut down than to upgrade.

[qwazse]

We have one park that's an hour north of town. The tracks are pretty tame. They had a slick track for a while that adults could race. That was fun. Hard on your back the taller you got. Don't know that helmets would help that.

 

Frankly, I think multipurpose helmets could be part of an active crew's uniform if the activities included sking, climbing, and go-cats. They'd probably pay for themselves after ten events.

[Beavah]

Yah, sometimes we get a bit crazy about helmets, eh?  Not sure there've been any significant head injuries go-cartin'.  I don't really know that industry though.

 

To answer da original poster's question, though, the regular commercial go-cart course activity like what exists in many summer tourism areas is perfectly allowable.  It's no longer unauthorized.   From what I understand, there was never any intention to prohibit that sort of go-carting.  No real safety issues there, and da liability falls on the commercial facility, not the BSA.  Da go-cart prohibition means that as a unit yeh shouldn't be runnin' your own go-cart events or participatin' in the amateur competitive stuff.

 

That change/clarification wasn't made that long ago, so it's perfectly possible that folks in your council haven't gotten the memo, eh?   Da G2SS updates have been comin' so fast and furious that it's hard to keep up.  Just gently inform 'em of da change, point to the current online version, and have 'em call National Health & Safety if they feel readin' it in black and white ain't enough for them.

 

Have fun out there!

 

Beavah

[Stosh]

Back in 2013, we had an adult manage to flip over a go-cart at an amusement park and kill himself.  I doubt whether the helmet would have done any good, but how he managed to flip a cart is beyond me.

 

http://www.channel3000.com/news/man-died-after-losing-control-of-gokart-in-dells-officials-said/20839954

 

I can kinda see why BSA might be a bit touchy about the subject.

 

https://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/97581/go-kart.pdf

[RichardB]

An observation, racing is not authorized, not highlighted in said quote below.    I'm willing to wager that something in the name of the facility / review of the facilities marketing and brand, and the review at the council levels has something along the lines of racing in it.  K-1 Racing if I'm really good at the when Mom says no we ask Dad on the internet game.....

 

RichardB

 

PS:  Beavah, glad to see ya back.   

 

 

 

9. Motorized go-carts and motorbike activities are unauthorized for Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs. Go-carting conducted at a commercial facility that provides equipment and supervision of cart operation is authorized upon submittal of a completed tour and activity plan. Participating in motorized speed events, including motorcycles, boats, drag racing, demolition derbies, and related events are not authorized activities for any program level.

 

 

 

[Stosh]

@@RichardB

 

Obviously competative racing is not an acceptable activity for a BSA activity.  Even though they found it appropriate to put the BSA logo on a NASCAR sponsored vehicle for the centennial. 

 

But I'm thinking the little amusement park course with the PeeWee golf course attached is what they are referring to and yes, it was one of these amusement park rides that this adult flipped a cart over and killed himself.  But that was pretty much a freak accident that could have happened at any event, even bears and Philmont.  But a lot of these commercial go-kart rides at amusement parks are going away.  The last one we had in our area closed up last summer.  The next nearest one is at least 100 miles away.  My church group youth went to the park quite often to hit batted balls, ride the carts and play golf.

[Krampus]

This is a poorly written section. One could read this and conclude go karting was allowed but only at commercial facilities...even for Boy Scouts and cub scouts.

[Sentinel947]

This is a poorly written section. One could read this and conclude go karting was allowed but only at commercial facilities...even for Boy Scouts and cub scouts.

Wow. I'm confused. So can Boy Scouts go Go karting in an authorized facility or is that only venturers? 

[Krampus]

9. Motorized go-carts and motorbike activities are unauthorized for Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs. Go-carting conducted at a commercial facility that provides equipment and supervision of cart operation is authorized upon submittal of a completed tour and activity plan. Participating in motorized speed events, including motorcycles, boats, drag racing, demolition derbies, and related events are not authorized activities for any program level.

 

 

Wow. I'm confused. So can Boy Scouts go Go karting in an authorized facility or is that only venturers? 

 

Exactly. The wording above does not make that clear, does it? If they meant for go-karting to be excluded in all situations they'd say something like "The activity of go-karting is expressly prohibited at all times for any Cub Scout or Boy Scout unit. For Venturing or Varsity units, go-karting is allowed at commercial facilities that..."

 

Since they did not clearly word that section, my interpretation is that my Boy Scout unit can go go-karting as long as we have it in our tour plan and we use a commercial facility.

[Sentinel947]

Exactly. The wording above does not make that clear, does it? If they meant for go-karting to be excluded in all situations they'd say something like "The activity of go-karting is expressly prohibited at all times for any Cub Scout or Boy Scout unit. For Venturing or Varsity units, go-karting is allowed at commercial facilities that..."

 

Since they did not clearly word that section, my interpretation is that my Boy Scout unit can go go-karting as long as we have it in our tour plan and we use a commercial facility.

I hope so, we have before.... lol

[Krampus]

I hope so, we have before.... lol

So have we. Many times.

 

If BSA wants to prohibit units from doing things, like say bubble ball or hot air ballooning or paint ball, they'd word the prohibition correctly to expressly forbid it. They didn't so we can. Done.

[BadenP]

crew67

 

Let me tell you from 15 years in Venturing that in this case qwazse is correct, Venturers are allowed much more leeway in types of activities unlike troops or packs. Stosh if a group of boys decide to go go-carting for fun and it is not a BSA violation if the parents give their permission, and they can NOT be removed from a troop since it was NOT  a scout activity. The GSS applies only to SCOUTING activities done as a troop, patrol, pack, or den.

[qwazse]

One of my crew is a competitive racer (first go-carts, lately stock cars). I can understand the complexities of any club underwriting such an activity. The training required far exceeds the time most scouts and scouters would ever invest in their respective programs.

 

I have yet to make it to one of his races. (There aren't that many because he struggles to afford the vehicle and maintenance.) Thought visiting a race day would make a great crew activity, but he's been shy about blowing his own horn and letting us know when he'd be on the track.

Edited April 18, 2016 by qwazse