Interesting topic came up....

[Stosh]

You finally said something I can agree with, Stosh.  You are a school administrators worst nightmare.

We all gotta be good at something! 

 

When I would go pick my daughter up from school (custody issue back then) she was sometimes late so I would go to the office to have her paged.  I wore a black expedition type hat with a black drover coat.  Walk in and would quietly get escorted to the office by some teacher(s).  I'd get to the office and the school receptionist would always say, "Hi, Mr. Stosh, can't find Katie? and I would like to introduce Mr. or Ms. ?? who haven't had the chance to meet you yet."    I think I cycled through the entire middle school staff and high school staff over the years. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Stosh

[Krampus]

When I would go pick my daughter up from school (custody issue back then) she was sometimes late so I would go to the office to have her paged.  I wore a black expedition type hat with a black drover coat.  

 

Nothing says spooky like a black hat and drover coat.

 

[Stosh]

Nothing says spooky like a black hat and drover coat.

 

 

Yep, that's the same outfit I was wearing on my way to work when some kid a block away saw me and turned me in to the police!    Now that I'm retired, have longer hair and a full beard, I can even scare rattle snakes, puffer fish and cats.  The guy with a gun is still a challenge. 

[NJCubScouter]

When I was on my local school board I believe we were advised that "zero tolerance" was in conflict with state law and that every case of discipline had to be determined on its own merits.  Some people would sometimes advocate "zero tolerance" policies but it would be shot down fairly quickly.  And personally I think that most people who do advocate "zero tolerance" don't really know what it means.  If you ask them a "But what if..." question you will usually find that there is almost always the possibility of extenuating circumstances.  (Obviously I am not talking about violent criminal acts here.)  And if you phrase the issue in terms of "taking all the circumstances into account", I find that most people agree with that, even if they think they favor "zero tolerance."

 

As an aside to DavidCO, I find it astonishing that you sat on 40 expulsion hearings in one term on a local school board.  I assume this was a 3- or 4-year term in a public school district.  I think that in my almost 4 years on the board (I was appointed to fill a vacancy and then elected to a 3-year term) our district did not expel anybody.  We did have some appeals of suspensions to deal with, but I think there were only 2 or 3 of those.  And this is in a district approaching 10,000 students with a high school approaching 3,000 students.  I can't imagine having to deal with expulsions on approximately a monthly basis.  I would have hated being on a board like that too.  (As it was, I didn't hate it, and would have happily served a second full term, but the voters decided otherwise.  I was a better board member than I was a politician.)

Edited April 20, 2016 by NJCubScouter

[gumbymaster]

The problem with not having zero tolerance, as our school board has tried to explain, is that when "circumstances" and "rational thought" processes are applied to the situation, statistically speaking, the punishments/consequences are racially imbalanced, with white children tending to receive lessor punishments than minority children.

 

By treating everyone the same, regardless of having a reasonable explanation, they hope to avoid the discrimination lawsuit.  And yes, we are the paranoid school district that suspends an elementary school child for a "finger gun" on the playground a recess.

 

I'm not saying it is right.  In fact, I know it to be wrong, but they seem incapable of figuring out a fair way to be reasonable to the circumstances.

[Krampus]

The problem with not having zero tolerance, as our school board has tried to explain, is that when "circumstances" and "rational thought" processes are applied to the situation, statistically speaking, the punishments/consequences are racially imbalanced, with white children tending to receive lessor punishments than minority children.

 

I'd love to see the details on that issue. I know in our areas this was implied by an out-of-state group looking to cause problems. 

When the details were analyzed the end result was happenstance that the minority student were not exonerated as often as non-minority student. The facts of the cases were such that the rules were correctly applied. The previous year it was dead even.

 

I hope in this day and age administrators could apply discretion without bringing race in to it.

[NJCubScouter]

Gumbymaster, maybe it is a question of different laws in different states (though a discrimination claim would also be federal.)  Otherwise, if your school board is correct and the advice my school board received is also correct, the school district could have liability regardless of what it does.  The law usually does not produce such a result.  (Not usually.)

[David CO]

NJCubScouter

 

It was the last year of an unexpired 3 year term.  The previous holder of the office resigned.  The time commitment was much greater than he had bargained for. At least that's the story he gave.

 

We had a serious gang problem.  Many of the expulsions were for kids who were already in juvi detention.  

 

One of the expulsions was for a 7th grader who actually threatened the president of the school board with a knife, on school grounds.  He was extorting money from anyone who walked by.  We don't believe he knew it was a school board member.

Edited April 20, 2016 by David CO

[Stosh]

Ya gotta bring race into everything to make it interesting nowadays.  You aren't gonna make the national news unless the race card is played.

[Krampus]

Ya gotta bring race into everything to make it interesting nowadays.  You aren't gonna make the national news unless the race card is played.

 

...unless you bring reverse discrimination in to the picture. Then the media doesn't want to hear about it.

[NJCubScouter]

NJCubScouter

 

It was the last year of an unexpired 3 year term.  The previous holder of the office resigned.  The time commitment was much greater than he had bargained for. At least that's the story he gave.

 

We had a serious gang problem.  Many of the expulsions were for kids who were already in juvi detention.  

 

One of the expulsions was for a 7th grader who actually threatened the president of the school board with a knife, on school grounds.  He was extorting money from anyone who walked by.  We don't believe he knew it was a school board member.

 

So it was 40 expulsions in 1 year.  Wow.  Not only would I not want to serve on that board, I sympathize with anyone involved in that school system.

[Stosh]

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[NJCubScouter]

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

I'm not sure what or who you are referring to there.  Surely you cannot be referring to members of school boards.  Having been there, "absolute power" would be far, far away from an accurate description.

[Stosh]

Yes, @@NJCubScouter you are absolutely correct, absolute and zero-tolerance can never be used in the same sentence.....

[NJCubScouter]

Yes, @@NJCubScouter you are absolutely correct, absolute and zero-tolerance can never be used in the same sentence.....

I think you're missing the point of my question.

Edited April 21, 2016 by NJCubScouter