Interesting topic came up....

[Stosh]

My brother and his wife used to work in a federal prison system.  They had more rules and regs that make the IRS rules look like a brochure.

 

Why not just have every adult in the school system wear a body alarm like the guards in a prison do.  That way if any teacher or staff member sees something known to be illegal, like a gun or drugs, they hit the alarm and the police take over and the teacher  or staff member goes back to what they were doing. 

 

If a kid has a squirt gun?  take it away and put it in the desk drawer until the last day of classes like the teachers had been doing for decades previously.  If the toy gun looks like a real gun, don't second guess, hit the body alarm, let the authorities figure it out.

 

If a kid wants to bring a treat for his birthday, send notes on the first day of classes that all threats need to be commercially prepared and wrapped.  Mom's will be happy they don't need to make anything special and that a bag of Tootsie Rolls works just fine.

 

If an Eagle Scout is driving his dad's car to school, where is the search warrant of probable cause that ferreted out the 1" pocket knife in the glove box?

 

Zero-tolerance rules are political ploys by administrators to convince the people of the community they are "doing something" when in fact the only thing they are doing is taking the existing laws to the extreme and making fools of themselves.  

 

Let's just put it this way.  If a kid wanted to harm another student all they would need to do is stab them in the neck with a pencil multiple times.  What zero-tolerance rule does that protect against?  Last time I checked pencils were still allowed in schools......Maybe I ought to check again. 

[Krampus]

Really?  A parent trying to "be prepared" is an idiot?  Is that the kind of things they teach School Board members?  To think of parents as being idiots? 

 

And for what - a standard table knife?  You know the ones - the ones that look like a knife and are good mostly for spreading butter or cutting soft food items like cake but aren't usually sharp enough to cut meat?

 

Frankly, the idiots are the school board members that demand this kind of foolishness.

 

And this is frankly why "zero tolerance" or as you put it elsewhere, "primary jurisdiction" policies are amongst the dumbest policies any school district can come up with, and is frankly quite insulting to the professional staff of school districts - the Superintendents, Principles and Teachers at the schools.

 

[sNIP]

 

Now maybe you truly believe that the primary jurisdiction stuff is a good check and balance but most of us have seen far too many reports of school board rubber stamping the decisions of their Superintendents at these expulsion hearings because of "Zero Tolerance".

 

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Edited April 19, 2016 by Krampus

[JasonG172]

 

You and your buddies willfully disobeyed your Scoutmaster.  Your Scoutmaster said no, and you did it anyway.

 

 

 

I guess I am missing something.  If me and some of my troop buddies wanted to go camping (not using any of the troops stuff) what gives the SM the right to tell me No.  This is not a scout function.

[Rick_in_CA]

Let's just put it this way.  If a kid wanted to harm another student all they would need to do is stab them in the neck with a pencil multiple times.  What zero-tolerance rule does that protect against?  Last time I checked pencils were still allowed in schools......Maybe I ought to check again.

Maybe not: A Teacher Tried To Ban Student-Brought Pencils And Pens In School or Kid sent to counseling for twirling a pencil.

[Stosh]

Maybe not: A Teacher Tried To Ban Student-Brought Pencils And Pens In School or Kid sent to counseling for twirling a pencil.

 

Oh Man!  I thought that statement of mine was ridiculous enough to be construed as sarcasm.  Apparently not!

[qwazse]

FWIW, one of our scouts was permanently suspended after being verbally and physically assaulted by an abusive team-mate during summer practice. I was dumbfounded ... Simply because this scout hardly needed anything besides his size to handle such individuals, But he drew a pen knife in an attempt to avoid the fight. But he brought it on school property ...

 

In court, the aggressor was brought up on charges, and the scout was exonerated.

The boy's grown up to be a fine young man ... Trump supporter.

Dare I say unintended consequences?

[Stosh]

When attacked, fight back with whatever means available, there are no rules, cheat if you have to, just win......

 

Of course there's always the caveat "Be Prepared".  There should be things in your pockets that can double as weapons, set of car keys interlaced between fingers, pens, pencils, belt, watch band, carry your change in a sock, wallet chain, .... anything available to "make a point" and make sure that point is sharp.

 

Technically I am "illegal" every time I'm on school property and even worse when I'm working in the garden at my old house which is next door to a high school.

 

I just came back from a Boy Scout meeting, still in my uniform and as I sit here, I have 5 items that can be used as weapons.

 

I am some school administrators worst nightmare. 

[CalicoPenn]

The boy's grown up to be a fine young man ... Trump supporter.

 

 

Is that what passes for a fine young man these days? 

[CalicoPenn]

 

 

I just came back from a Boy Scout meeting, still in my uniform and as I sit here, I have 5 items that can be used as weapons.

 

 

 

Yeah - been there - don't make me demonstrate one of the 76 ways I know to inflict serious damage to someone with a drinking straw...

[Krampus]

Maybe not: A Teacher Tried To Ban Student-Brought Pencils And Pens In School or Kid sent to counseling for twirling a pencil.

 

 

Oh Man!  I thought that statement of mine was ridiculous enough to be construed as sarcasm.  Apparently not!

One of the many reasons I won't move back to the Northeast.

[Stosh]

This is why most of my grandchildren are home-schooled.  And the mom of one of them was a public school valedictorian.  Both gave up good jobs and went to single income so they could be home for their kids.  I don't know if they are Trump supporters or not.....

[perdidochas]

When attacked, fight back with whatever means available, there are no rules, cheat if you have to, just win......

 

Of course there's always the caveat "Be Prepared".  There should be things in your pockets that can double as weapons, set of car keys interlaced between fingers, pens, pencils, belt, watch band, carry your change in a sock, wallet chain, .... anything available to "make a point" and make sure that point is sharp.

 

Technically I am "illegal" every time I'm on school property and even worse when I'm working in the garden at my old house which is next door to a high school.

 

I just came back from a Boy Scout meeting, still in my uniform and as I sit here, I have 5 items that can be used as weapons.

 

I am some school administrators worst nightmare. 

 

Well, in the schools I've been in, adults are allowed to have pocket knives, etc. In a former life, I was a teacher, and used to always have a knife in my pocket (usually a leatherman of some sort).  A student turned me in to the school resource officer (a  sheriff's deputy who came to the school a few days a week) for it.  The SRO told me about it, and said, as long as you don't stab a student with it, you can use it.  My sons' school district has a rule about the accidental contraband issue. If the student turns themself in, no repercussions--the item is kept by the assistant principal until a parent picks it up. If another student turns them in for the item, it's turned over to the principal for punishment.  I tell the Scouts if they find they accidentally have a pocket knife in their pocket the day after a campout. Tell an adult ASAP.

[Sentinel947]

Well, in the schools I've been in, adults are allowed to have pocket knives, etc. In a former life, I was a teacher, and used to always have a knife in my pocket (usually a leatherman of some sort).  A student turned me in to the school resource officer (a  sheriff's deputy who came to the school a few days a week) for it.  The SRO told me about it, and said, as long as you don't stab a student with it, you can use it.  My sons' school district has a rule about the accidental contraband issue. If the student turns themself in, no repercussions--the item is kept by the assistant principal until a parent picks it up. If another student turns them in for the item, it's turned over to the principal for punishment.  I tell the Scouts if they find they accidentally have a pocket knife in their pocket the day after a campout. Tell an adult ASAP.

 

I'm pretty sure that is how it is in my local district as well. 

[David CO]

You finally said something I can agree with, Stosh.  You are a school administrators worst nightmare.

[Stosh]

Well, in the schools I've been in, adults are allowed to have pocket knives, etc. In a former life, I was a teacher, and used to always have a knife in my pocket (usually a leatherman of some sort).  A student turned me in to the school resource officer (a  sheriff's deputy who came to the school a few days a week) for it.  The SRO told me about it, and said, as long as you don't stab a student with it, you can use it.  My sons' school district has a rule about the accidental contraband issue. If the student turns themself in, no repercussions--the item is kept by the assistant principal until a parent picks it up. If another student turns them in for the item, it's turned over to the principal for punishment.  I tell the Scouts if they find they accidentally have a pocket knife in their pocket the day after a campout. Tell an adult ASAP.

 

That explanation doesn't fit the zero-tolerance policy assumed by every parent in the school district.  You get caught with a fingernail file, you're going to end up in Juvie!  Worse than getting caught by the TSA.