Interesting topic came up....

[David CO]

Yes, PTA is a private organization.  Units owned by a PTA are not school owned units.

 

Many schools have formed groups similar to PTA, but which are actually school owned groups.  Units sponsored by one of these groups are school owned.

Edited April 17, 2016 by David CO

[RememberSchiff]

School sports is a conundrum for home-schoolers. Most states have "Equal Access" to public school activities but then many state/regional sports conferences are private groups with their own rules (sounds familiar) and yet practice and games are on public school property.

 

So far, state courts have mostly ruled in favor of school districts/sports conferences setting eligibility requirements.

 

Seems discriminatory to me, I see more legal and legislative action ahead.

 

Meanwhile kids showed up for town Little League. No one cared what school they attended or their grades as that is still a parent responsibility, we just check DOB. Play ball.

[David CO]

I know of a few Catholic school leagues that are parish based rather than school based.  Members of a parish who home-school their kids or send them to public schools are still eligible to have their kids play in those leagues.

 

Milwaukee used to have a parish based league.  I don't know if it still exists.

 

I actually like that system much better.

Edited April 17, 2016 by David CO

[RememberSchiff]

I know of a few Catholic school leagues that are parish based rather than school based.  Members of a parish who home-school their kids or send them to public schools are still eligible to have their kids play in those leagues.

 

Milwaukee used to have a parish based league.  I don't know if it still exists.

 

I actually like that system much better.

Well some progress anyway. Back in the day, public school Catholics, like myself, were not permitted to join the church troop or play CYO basketball.

[David CO]

I totally agree.  That sort of thinking is short sighted.

 

Allowing home-school and public school Catholics to join select activities is a great recruitment tool.  If they like your scout unit, or your music program, or your basketball team, they might decide to join the school as well.

 

These participants should still be held to the same standards as the Catholic school students.

[RememberSchiff]

These participants should still be held to the same standards as the Catholic school students.

 

If those "standards" exclude a subset of Catholic kids - public school, home-school from the start, then those standards need tossing and not those kids.

 

My $0.02,

[David CO]

As an interesting side note to the discussion, I think many of the public school Catholics wouldn't want to participate in our sports programs.  Our boys take group showers, just like many of us did back in the day.

 

The public school doesn't have shower facilities in their locker rooms.

[qwazse]

Blatant disregard for the scout law, or unwillingness to live up to the oath are our general triggers.

 

In terms of going off into the woods (or any daytime -- even most night time -- activities) without SMs permission, well that pretty much goes against western PA culture.

 

The best I'd say to a kid: "Glad you took some initiative, hope you taught your friends some of the stuff we taught you. Next time you're doing more of the same, run it by me. I might be able to help with your plan."

 

Representing the troop, the CO, or the BSA has never been a consideration for me.

[Stosh]

The more I hear about schools today, the more I am convinced I grew up in the Golden Age of the United States and since then it has progressively gone down hill.... with an emphasis on "progressively".  Pun intended.

 

 

[SSScout]

" Mr. Scoutmaster, a couple of my friends and I are going camping this weekend at the Muddy Glen State Park.  Can I use that for camping time credit?"

" Is this your Rusty Moose Patrol, Johnny?"

"No sir, just some of the guys.  I guess Steve is going, but no, not the  whole Patrol."

" Any parents going along?"

"No sir, just us friends, my dad said it was OK, and the other guys all have their parents ok, too.   Jake goes hunting with his dad, and Steve and I went to Philmont last year. And Mitch said he went to his church camp last year up in the Adirondacks.  It's all ok with their folks."

" Well, that's nice, but I can't let it be used for Scout camping time. It isn't a Scout event, is it?" 

"I guess not.  So it has to be a Scout camp out?"

"Yep, that's the rule."

"Okay. Well, shucks, Just thought I'd ask.  Thanks any way."

"Sure, Good.  And you will be using your Scout training to set a good example, right?  Leave No Trace and like that? "

"Oh, absolutely.  We're not 'that kind' of camper.  No sir!"

"Okay.  Then have a good time and we'll see you next Troop meeting, right?  Maybe invite your buddies to join the VCrew, eh?"

"Hey, yeah, hadn't thought about that.  Well thanks again.  "

"Good night, John."

"G'night, sir."

[qwazse]

For what it's worth, most guys and girls who give me plans for camping independently have already accumulated any requisite camping nights for their programs.

[Scouter1074]

"grounds for removing a scout from the program"?

• Behavior would have to have occurred during Scouting.
• Most people should get a second or third chance or suspense before expulsion.
• Behavior that beyond leaders ability.
• Repeated danger to others.

 

PS: In my stereotype observations the tolerance threshold for troubled Scouts is higher with the non-parent CO volunteer or former Scout adult leader compared to many parent of Scout leaders.

[David CO]

Some of you guys are much more knowledgeable about scouting history than am I.  Do you know what the threshold was in olden days?

 

I'd heard stories from my father's generation suggesting that the threshold was much lower back then.  Simply telling a lie could get you the boot. 

 

I don't know if these stories were true or not.

[Stosh]

@@Scouter1074

 

The interrelationship between those "grounds" identified varies from one person to the next, but they make a couple of very important points.  Not everyone can dish out discipline equally because they may not be able to handle the various levels of the problem.

 

I have worked with youth for 45 years in a variety of different settings besides BSA.  I have worked with scouts from Cubs through Venturing, I have dealt with at-risk youth and youth with serious emotional problems, the kind where the advice given to everyone is never turn your back on these kids.

 

I have 15 years experience in ministry and have training in clinical counseling.  I also hold a degree in psychology. 

 

So I come armed to the table at a far greater level than the average scouter.  I may be able to handle and tolerate more questionable situations than others but you are 100% correct  that these boys need a second or third chance if that is possible, and if the problem beyond the leaders' ability, it is definitely justified to remove a scout from the program.  BSA has a good program for developing good moral character and leadership, but when that goes awry, it doesn't have the resources to fix things, nor should it have to.

[Hedgehog]

Other than for legal issues, grand theft auto, bank robbery, etc. and gross non-adherence to the Scout Oath and Law, what issues would be grounds for removing a scout from the program?   

 

 

 

1,  Failing to use a dutch oven to cook at least once on a campout.

2.  Asking "are we there yet?" on a hike.

3.  Washing cast iron with soap.

4.  Wearing anything cotton.

5.  Leaving their hiking boots to close to where others are sleeping and having a scout pass out due to asphyxiation.

6.  Visiting the adult campsite when it isn't an emergency.

7.  Taking more than one match to light a campfire

8.  Forgetting to flush the latrine or leaving the seat up.

9.  Eating off a paper towel because they forgot their mess kit.

10.  Using squirt guns instead of hydrostatic propulsion devices on a canoing trip.