Forced to cross early?

[Stosh]

That's not true.

 

These are supplemental to the PL and other roles. Not every leader can be everywhere at once. These supplemental roles allow the younger Scouts to feel more connected. It puts more eyes on the situation. Why? Even your best PL is not going to see everything. Adding in these unofficial roles will help that.

 

Let's face it, technically NONE of these positions or roles should be necessary if everyone followed the Oath and Law all the time. But these are kids we are talking about, so redundancy is needed at times.

 

Interesting line of thought.  PL runs the show for 5-7 other boys.  He should have a pretty good handle on what's going on especially if his APL is actually functioning as his #1 right hand man and not sitting around just waiting for him to not come to the meeting so he can be boss.  Most of the time they don't even do that much.  Okay there's no need for any of the other POR's except in a supportive role. 

 

New boys show up so now everyone becomes TG?  Or does one have 1 or 2 former DC's that can work with the boys to help get them oriented to the Boy Scout way of doing things in a patrol dedicated only for that purpose.  (At least in the beginning.) 

 

Okay every patrol gets a QM and Scribe but with 5-6 patrols, having 5-6 patrol QM's digging through the storage shed at the same time is not always that efficient of a process,  Doable, but messy.

 

The paper work gets collected and some adult will need to step up to order everyone's rank patches, etc. but surely every patrol Scribe could do it for their boys so yes, that's doable too.

 

Now what about all these other POR's.  Maybe they're just busy work and extra hoops the boys have to jump through that make rank advancement seem to be a bit more challenging for the older boys and more advancement paperwork for the patrol Scribes.

 

I can see these POR's as rather useless in the smaller troops of 2-3 patrol, maybe <25 boys in all  but they start to get a bit more useful for the bigger troops.  As I said, one Troop QM orchestrating a system of getting the right patrol equipment to each patrol would make life easier than 5-6 patrol QM's looking for their stuff.

 

So the Troop QM will need to make sure the backpacking lightweight stuff is tended to with special care for the Venture patrol, and the Regular patrols will just need the same-old same-old, but maybe some extra time with the New Scout patrol will need to get up  to speed with the equipment for his patrol. 

 

If the SPL is working with the Venture boys, he might be offering a bit more support than the Regular patrols, but he will need to focus along with the TG to get the PL of the New Scout up to speed.

 

Whereas mixed groupings rely on all the patrol members to cover all aspects of patrol life, the adjunct POR's are specialists that will work directly with a group of boys to make sure everything is covered in the initial stages of the new patrol operation.

 

So let's imagine the patrol is now gelling and doing pretty good for themselves and the "powers that be" whether adult or youth, decide to break the NSP up into all the other patrols.  The NSP patrol leader now is in a patrol and he's not doing what he was trained to do, same for the NSP QM, Scribe, etc.  They go from fledgling leaders to nothing for a year or two until the others in that patrol age out.

 

I guess I just see to many small group dynamics being disrupted and I'd be the first to say a NSP for one year and then apple-cart-up-side-down mix and match into the other patrols is a really stupid process and will not work.  That doesn't mean I'm against NSP, I'm just against how some troops interpret how they are to be used.  Any tool used in a manner it was not designed to be used as will cause problems.  NSP as a tool for program development is no exception to that philosophy.

[Phrogger]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. To answer a few specifics, I'm sure my son is immature for his age; he has issues in school which require an intervention team. He doesn't have any official diagnoses but I'd say he might even be high-functioning asperger's. But you can't really tell except his behavior seems really annoying sometimes, which makes it hard for him to make friends.  The other thing is, he doesn't like the outdoors all that much, even though he's enjoyed the camping trips with the Cub Scouts. He's on the fence about Scouts and almost quit a year ago. Then we moved to a much more active pack and he decided to stay in.

 

But I believe in the BSA program, I really value the strong leadership training he'll get if he stays in, not to mention the friends and experiences. If we do Boy Scouts, I need it to be the best experience possible, or he may not continue. I won't force him to do it but I'll encourage him to give it a try for at least a year.  He really likes the STEM based activities. His den leader even helped the boys build a working drone with a 3D printer. He also loved the moviemaking and game design electives, and every year he has looked forward to the Pinewood Derby. If there is enough of that type of stuff I think he can learn to love the outdoors too.

[qwazse]

From time to time we've had very young cross-overs. They've done well, with the usual ups and downs.

Sometimes it's nice to have friends who are in middle and high school.

 

If he's friends with any of the Bear scouts, point out that he has the chance to race one more PWD with them.

If he's closer to the older scouts, as he moves into the troop, help the troop find activities that suit his tastes.

 

Not sure if anyone in your council is starting STEM scouts, but you may want to give them a call to ee if there's a lab near you.

[meyerc13]

In our unit we make it work with the mixed patrols. The older Scouts really take the younger ones under their wing.

 

Without orchestrating anything at the adult level, it is funny to see that the younger Scouts in a patrol will tent together while the older Scouts do the same. Rarely do you see a 17 year old and an 11 year old. When you do see it, the younger guys learn a great deal. It all depends on your older Scouts.

 

 

Be careful here... according to Youth Protection guidelines, you shouldn't have 11 year olds tenting with 17 year olds:

 

Assigning youth members more than two years apart in age to sleep in the same tent should be avoided unless the youth are relatives.

[Krampus]

Be careful here... according to Youth Protection guidelines, you shouldn't have 11 year olds tenting with 17 year olds:

They're related.

[Stosh]

 

Be careful here... according to Youth Protection guidelines, you shouldn't have 11 year olds tenting with 17 year olds:

 

"Should be avoided" is not the same as "prohibited".  Mixed patrols might have a problem with that.

[Eagle94-A1]

When the heck did they add the 2 year thing?

 

Grant you I'm glad that a brother and sister can share the same tent now, we have a set backpacking, and they are a backpacking buddies.

[Phrogger]

Actually if that's the rule, it would make me feel sooooo much better.

[Krampus]

Actually if that's the rule, it would make me feel sooooo much better.

It's written as guidance, not a rule.

 

Imagine a small troop where that's not possible.

[Stosh]

It's written as guidance, not a rule.

 

Imagine a small troop where that's not possible.

 

With patrols of relatively same aged boys, one doesn't need concern themselves with such things, but with smaller troops it can't be helped.  There's a big difference between setting it up as a problem and not having control by virtue of the troops age make-up.

[qwazse]

@@Phrogger, rule #1: don't ask for rules ... they'll make them for you, and you'll regret it.

 

Seriously, the routine in most troops (even mixed age patrols) is to bunk the youngest scouts together.

 

Now, in my crew, it's a rare day when we put up a tent ....

[Stosh]

@@Phrogger, rule #1: don't ask for rules ... they'll make them for you, and you'll regret it.

 

Seriously, the routine in most troops (even mixed age patrols) is to bunk the youngest scouts together.

 

Now, in my crew, it's a rare day when we put up a tent ....

 

If one doesn't interfere with the patrol method, one doesn't need to worry about it.  The boys tend to patrol/buddy up together by age and unless the adults interfere in the process, the boys don't bunk with older/younger boys because they aren't their buddies anyway.

[meyerc13]

When the heck did they add the 2 year thing?

 

Grant you I'm glad that a brother and sister can share the same tent now, we have a set backpacking, and they are a backpacking buddies.

 

Noe sure when it was added, I noticed it about a year ago when we were planning our Pack's first Pack Overnighters.  One of the moms didn't want to come, but wanted to know if her son could come.  In short, by my reading of the rules the answer was "Yes, but he can't sleep in a tent with any other adult who isn't a relative or guardian, but could sleep in a tent with another boy, as long as the boy isn't more than two years older, and he'd have to be under the responsibility of an assigned adult while on the Pack Overnighter, which per the aforementioned rules would not necessarily include sleeping in that adult's tent."

 

I felt like I was back in college taking my Legal Studies courses again trying to come up with the answer to that one.

[meyerc13]

Actually if that's the rule, it would make me feel sooooo much better.

 

As mentioned above, it isn't necessarily a rule, but it is strong enough guidance that they put it down on paper.  However, as seen in this thread, I suspect many Scout leaders may not be aware of it.  If this is a concern to you, the best thing you can do is bring a copy of this to the unit leader and ask him/her if that is how the Troop handles tenting arrangements.

 

As others have stated, boys tend to bunk with their friends, generally of a similar age, so it usually works itself out.  In those cases where assignments need to be made, by bringing this to the leader's attention, I suspect the unit will take this into consideration although again, in most cases I think assignments are done by age for tenting purposes.