Scoutmaster denies 17 year old Life Scout Eagle

[Stosh]

I have a certain youth that was active early on and got busy with sports/band and is now doing his Eagle Project.  I have seen him on 1 campout in the last 2 years and I have seen him at a handful of meeting the last year.  I am really hoping NOT to be asked to be on his EBOR!

 

@@JasonG172  Have you given this scout an opportunity to hear your concerns and why you would not want to be on his EBOR?  I would think it would fit nicely into one's taking care of their boys to give him a heads up..  Kinda goes hand in hand with being trustworthy too.  Does one have the Scout's back?  I guess if I too wouldn't want to be around at the last minute when someone drops a bomb on this kid and I knew, or at least suspected, I could have done something earlier to help him out.  i.e. A Scout is Helpful. 

[Beavah]

Hiya SSF!

 

Yah, lots of adult drama there, eh?

 

I've got a question for yeh.   What is it that you want for your son as a parent?

 

Lots of times as parents we get a little too involved in da trees and drama of our teenagers, eh?   Yeh can usually tell you've hit that point when yeh start talkin' about bein' able to write small novels about their current dust-up with their teacher/coach/scoutmaster.

 

Take a step back and look at the forest and what your real goals for the lad are.  Is your goal really an Eagle award?  Or is your goal the life lessons that come from Scouting and working and doing things in Scouting?

 

So first, I'd say "Let your son handle his own problems".  He's almost an adult and I assume next year he's goin' to have to deal with meeting the requirements of college and da demands of persnickety professors all on his own, eh?  Or maybe he's goin' off to military service or to a job where the same will be true.   Let Scouting be what it was designed to be - good practice for the world.   Without mom or dad gettin' caught up in da drama.  Sometimes we all have to deal with a difficult boss.

 

Second, pause for a moment and consider whether the SM and the committee and the other adult leaders (and perhaps some of the youth leaders, and...) don't have a bit of a point.   If a fellow in your job got a big award even though he'd really not been around very much at all, and both management and coworkers felt he really wasn't committed, how would that make yeh feel?  

 

Third, where do yeh stand on the sort of character you're tryin' to develop in your son?   Do yeh want him to lawyer his way through things by quibblin' with the letter of the law, or do yeh want other things from him?    No disrespect for lawyers, of course, since I happen to be partial to 'em myself.

 

I can't say anything about da merits or lack of merits of your son's Eagle application from afar.   I can say that as parents how we choose to allow our kids to deal with setbacks and the example we set in terms of bein' calm, and respectful of folks who've given their time and treasure to our kids as volunteers - that example means a lot.   Those are the things that teach real lessons that support our kids for a lifetime. 

 

Beavah

 

[fred johnson]

It never ceases to amaze me how many adults one comes across that think they know what they are doing and really haven't the foggiest idea that what they are doing is really bad for the boys.  Self deception seems to be running rampant in certain parts of the county and BSA is no exception.

 

Sadly true.  

 

It never surprises me the number of adults turn something that should be celebrated and cheered and work to turn it into a failure and work to create a bad experience for the scout.  IMHO, just want is the scout supposed to learn from these actions at the last minute.  If there are higher expectations, they are to be raised during every one of the previous ranks (scout, tenderfoot, 2nd class, first class, star and life).  You do NOT use Eagle as a barrier to a higher standard.  You have that standard throughout the scout's career or you don't.

 

Councils can get lost in paperwork.   Continue that path.  Make sure you are talking with the council advancement director.   ... BUT ...

 

Contact your district.  Contact the district advancement chair.  Get his help.  

 

You want as many people on your side.

 

You want to keep this moving forward.   Do not let this slip or wait as time is your enemy.

[JasonG172]

@@JasonG172  Have you given this scout an opportunity to hear your concerns and why you would not want to be on his EBOR?

 

His Dad is the ASM - When he is done he's done and I wont see them again.  Move along.  

 

If asked I will obviously say "sorry I already have plans"

 

Current position in the Troop - Committee Chairman

 

And also my son goes to a different troop, not the one I am a Committee Chairman for.  Simply because of the poor leadership.

Edited April 13, 2016 by JasonG172

[fred johnson]

Lots of times as parents we get a little too involved in da trees and drama of our teenagers, eh?   Yeh can usually tell you've hit that point when yeh start talkin' about bein' able to write small novels about their current dust-up with their teacher/coach/scoutmaster.

 

Beavah has good advice that should be used throughout the scout's career.  But at critical times and when there is a clear imbalance of power ... at those times it is appropriate for a parent to step in.  Opinions will differ.  You may run into others that think you are inserting yourself too much. 

 

IMHO, this is clearly one of the times to step in and turn an  unfair situation into a fair fight.

[perdidochas]

I have a certain youth that was active early on and got busy with sports/band and is now doing his Eagle Project.  I have seen him on 1 campout in the last 2 years and I have seen him at a handful of meeting the last year.  I am really hoping NOT to be asked to be on his EBOR!

Was he active for 6 months after Life?

[Stosh]

Hiya SSF!

 

Yah, lots of adult drama there, eh?

 

I've got a question for yeh.   What is it that you want for your son as a parent?

 

Lots of times as parents we get a little too involved in da trees and drama of our teenagers, eh?   Yeh can usually tell you've hit that point when yeh start talkin' about bein' able to write small novels about their current dust-up with their teacher/coach/scoutmaster.

 

Take a step back and look at the forest and what your real goals for the lad are.  Is your goal really an Eagle award?  Or is your goal the life lessons that come from Scouting and working and doing things in Scouting?

 

So first, I'd say "Let your son handle his own problems".  He's almost an adult and I assume next year he's goin' to have to deal with meeting the requirements of college and da demands of persnickety professors all on his own, eh?  Or maybe he's goin' off to military service or to a job where the same will be true.   Let Scouting be what it was designed to be - good practice for the world.   Without mom or dad gettin' caught up in da drama.  Sometimes we all have to deal with a difficult boss.

 

Second, pause for a moment and consider whether the SM and the committee and the other adult leaders (and perhaps some of the youth leaders, and...) don't have a bit of a point.   If a fellow in your job got a big award even though he'd really not been around very much at all, and both management and coworkers felt he really wasn't committed, how would that make yeh feel?  

 

Third, where do yeh stand on the sort of character you're tryin' to develop in your son?   Do yeh want him to lawyer his way through things by quibblin' with the letter of the law, or do yeh want other things from him?    No disrespect for lawyers, of course, since I happen to be partial to 'em myself.

 

I can't say anything about da merits or lack of merits of your son's Eagle application from afar.   I can say that as parents how we choose to allow our kids to deal with setbacks and the example we set in terms of bein' calm, and respectful of folks who've given their time and treasure to our kids as volunteers - that example means a lot.   Those are the things that teach real lessons that support our kids for a lifetime. 

 

Beavah

 

@@Beavah  !

 

So after a 2+ year hiatus you think you can just come waltzing back in here and walk away with the Grand Prix?  I would say that from all accounts here, your absence at the campfire has been about 0%, the big threads?  No participation ribbon for you!

 

So, where does that leave us, Young Man?

 

Sitting here seriously thinking it's great to see you back on the forum! 

 

Welcome back, we missed you!

Edited April 13, 2016 by Stosh

[JasonG172]

Was he active for 6 months after Life?

Registered and pays dues but that's been it after Life.  No Camporee or Summer Camp

[Krampus]

Was he active for 6 months after Life?

 

 

Registered and pays dues but that's been it after Life.  No Camporee or Summer Camp

 

But that's not how the "active participation" section reads (it is not just being active of 6 months while Life). You can have an active Life Scout at 14 who get Life at 13, puts in his six months of "activity" and then disappears until 17. Is he really "active" in the unit? Nope. Does the unit have an "active" level established? If so and he is not meeting it he's out of luck.

 

The GTA is pretty clear on what is done here. If the unit has not stated active level policy then he's within his rights to use the alternate test.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Krampus

[Stosh]

But that's not how the "active participation" section reads (it is not just being active of 6 months while Life). You can have an active Life Scout at 14 who get Life at 13, puts in his six months of "activity" and then disappears until 17. Is he really "active" in the unit? Nope. Does the unit have an "active" level established? If so and he is not meeting it he's out of luck.

 

The GTA is pretty clear on what is done here. If the unit has not stated active level policy then he's within his rights to use the alternate test.

How is this any different than the 14 year old Eagle that disappears the day after the ECOH? 

[Krampus]

How is this any different than the 14 year old Eagle that disappears the day after the ECOH? 

 

It isn't. 

 

Of course, in most units that are executing the program right, you don't have 14 year old Eagles and few Scouts ever disappear.

[Stosh]

It isn't. 

 

Of course, in most units that are executing the program right, you don't have 14 year old Eagles and few Scouts ever disappear.

 

I think you have overly assumed.  Most of our early ranked Eagles get JASM, then bored to death because they can't be involved the way they used to and mature out by 15 or 16.  The fun and adventure is gone.

[MattR]

Or maybe, Stosh, they're just very organized and motivated until they get their eagle. I have a 14 year old eagle scout, one of maybe 4 in the history of the troop, that really was good until he got eagle. It's not that he's bored because there's nothing to do, it's that nobody is holding anything over him to motivate him. Nobody is saying I bet you can't do this. Getting Eagle was the challenge, and there was nothing he did wrong. There was no way I could have stopped him and yet I knew this would happen. This is why I think FCFY is a total crock. I have a group of 15-17 year old troop guides that are learning so much more than this scout, only because they are slower at getting to the leadership positions. Their laziness is serving them well.

 

When they're young they're motivated by bling. As they get older they get motivated by deeper things. Some day this scout will mature and figure it all out.

[David CO]

Let's suppose for a moment that the boy succeeds in getting the council to overrule his unit and award him his eagle.  How would his unit react?

 

I would see it as an act of defiance and disloyalty to the unit. 

[Beavah]

 

I would say that from all accounts here, your absence at the campfire has been about 0%, the big threads?  No participation ribbon for you!

 

Yah, for sure!   Guess I'm goin' to have to go on a few virtual campouts before I ask for signoff on Forum Spirit, eh?

 

Thanks for the kind words, Stosh.   Da forums were pretty broken for a while there, eh?    Then life happened in Beavah-land with some health issues for Mrs. B, so I've been away from the woods and trails for a bit.  Things settlin' down now, and all's well.

 

Scout on!