I need a backpack

[Stosh]

It is surprising when one stops and ponders the Civil War soldier carried 3 day's rations in a haversack, 2 qt water in a canteen, a bedroll over the shoulder, 6# ammunition and a 11# gun and hiked for thousands of miles over the course of 3 years.  Our people can't walk from the parking lot to the campsite without an external/internal framed pack with sippers, pockets, shoulder straps, belts with breakaway belts, pack covers, double ziplock packing, etc.

 

I've done the 4 day outing of a national re-enactment, with nothing more than what I could carry in a bed roll and that included tent and 11# gun.  Nothing was nylon, all canvas and leather.  Of course I was over 50 years of age at the time too.  This backpacking stuff is not as hard as many of the "professionals" seem to make it out to be.

 

My BSA Yucca pack is a luxury and it doesn't have a waist belt either.

[Sentinel947]

It is surprising when one stops and ponders the Civil War soldier carried 3 day's rations in a haversack, 2 qt water in a canteen, a bedroll over the shoulder, 6# ammunition and a 11# gun and hiked for thousands of miles over the course of 3 years.  Our people can't walk from the parking lot to the campsite without an external/internal framed pack with sippers, pockets, shoulder straps, belts with breakaway belts, pack covers, double ziplock packing, etc.

 

 

 

They also didn't have flush toilets, electricity, air conditioning, cars, or cell phones either. Given the chance, I bet you they would upgrade to modern gear. They did the best with what they had at the time.  Doesn't mean I'm going to do things how they did it. 

[Stosh]

They also didn't have flush toilets, electricity, air conditioning, cars, or cell phones either. Given the chance, I bet you they would upgrade to modern gear. They did the best with what they had at the time.  Doesn't mean I'm going to do things how they did it. 

 

Hmmmmm, out in the woods where scouts are supposed to be they don't have flush toilets, electricity, air conditioning, cars or cell phones....  Where is it your boys camp?     They used to call it "Getting away from it all!"    I think they call it "Drag it along with you. Nowadays!

 

The last camporee I went on, I camped totally as a scout would have camped in 1910.  I cooked over wood, I slept in a WW I era dog tent with bed roll, used metal mess kit and canteen and wore the 1910 wool uniform.  Boys were constantly stopping by to see "how it was going" and I was doing just fine. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Stosh

[Eagledad]

2nd - even though it's not the normal recommendation form most backpackers, i would go for a back opening pack as opposed to a top opening.  The zipper adds a bit of weight, but honestly that's fairly negligible in my opinion, until a person starts to get very serious... and it's a bit more of a leak potential and failure point, but no more that I'm using it I would really like to have the accessibility the back opening models give.

We also advice back panel openings as well for people new to backpacking because they are just easier to access gear with the packs in a tent. I think they are good packs to start with and learn how to pack.

 

But our troop is a backpacking troop and we started using tents that don't have room for the packs. We learned and got used to packing most of our clothing gear in gallon freezer bags. They actually make it easier to pack a pack. After the tents are set up, we pull out the freezer bags and throw them in the tent. we leave our packs and patrol gear outside with the rain cover to protect them. Top loads aren't such a big deal then.

 

Barry

[Eagledad]

Any adult suggesting a scout use a pack without a hip belt should be reported for abuse. Our troop even back in the 60's was attaching surplus army web belts to our packs. 

 

Barry

[Sentinel947]

We also advice back panel openings as well for people new to backpacking because they are just easier to access gear with the packs in a tent. I think they are good packs to start with and learn how to pack.

 

But our troop is a backpacking troop and we started using tents that don't have room for the packs. We learned and got used to packing most of our clothing gear in gallon freezer bags. They actually make it easier to pack a pack. After the tents are set up, we pull out the freezer bags and throw them in the tent. we leave our packs and patrol gear outside with the rain cover to protect them. Top loads aren't such a big deal then.

 

Barry

Quoted because it's solid advice. 

 

I also like Ziplocks. You can spend 15$ per bag for a silnylon stuff sack that can hold your clothes, or you can just use 10 cent ziplocks..... I do recommend a waterproof nylon compression sack for sleeping bags. https://www.rei.com/product/730882/sea-to-summit-event-compression-dry-sack

 

Another nice feature to consider on packs are mesh stretch pockets on the back. I tend to keep a good deal of stuff in them. Fuel, plastic garden spade(for digging cat holes), first aid kit in a ziplock, bear bag rope, carabiners, rain cover for my pack, rain jacket for me. 

 

The only stuff that actually goes in my pack is the sleeping bag at the bottom, clothes next, then food. I lash/tie my sleeping pad to the bottom of the pack, and I put my tent under the lid. Sometimes depending on the weather I can get my tent to go into my pack standing straight up, then put my clothes and food on the other side. Another good way to store a tent if you have trouble fitting it in the pack is to take it out of it's bag, put the poles in a water bottle pocket, and use straps to hold it down. then put the tent body and fly in the body of your pack. 

 

 

[Sentinel947]

Hmmmmm, out in the woods where scouts are supposed to be they don't have flush toilets, electricity, air conditioning, cars or cell phones....  Where is it your boys camp?     They used to call it "Getting away from it all!"    I think they call it "Drag it along with you. Nowadays!

 

The last camporee I went on, I camped totally as a scout would have camped in 1910.  I cooked over wood, I slept in a WW I era dog tent with bed roll, used metal mess kit and canteen and wore the 1910 wool uniform.  Boys were constantly stopping by to see "how it was going" and I was doing just fine. 

 

You missed the point I think. Technology has advanced since 1870. Or 1915. Just like that we use electricity instead of candles at home. Toilets instead of outhouses. Camping gear has likewise improved. 

 

That's fine at a camporee. If I'm hiking Shawnee State park with my Scouts, in an environment that most backpackers describe as  "masochistic", The first 9 miles contain about 2500ft of climbing. 

 

You can put a 40 pound kit on a 12 year old in your care, for nostalgia's sake. I'm going to use reasonable advances in technology that have taken place since 1915 to keep the Scouts and other adults from getting seriously injured or so banged up that they won't give up backpacking as a hobby. YMMV.

 

Sentinel947

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Sentinel947

[tnmule20]

Thanks for all the great suggestions.  I went to REI on Saturday and tried some packs.  I really like the Osprey Atmos 65.  The suspension keeps the pack off of your back so you don't get as sweaty.  Did not come home with it because I'm not ready to spend $300 on a pack yet.

 

So I started checking my local Craigslist and I found something interesting.  A gentleman in my town had a Jansport Rainier for sale.  He said it had never been used and he wanted $65.  I offered him $50 and now I'm the owner of a new to me backpack.  Now don't flame me too hard.  Yes is is an external frame pack but I like it.  I started loading it down and trekking around the yard and it felt almost as good as the $300 Osprey.  The external frame keeps the pack off your back and the weight distribution was mostly on my hips like it should be.  I am pleasantly surprised.  It has plenty of room inside for sleeping bag and  camp pillow.  I can strap my tent to the bottom and sleep pad to the top.  Has the front open compartment.  Lots of pockets.  I think it will suit me fine for now.

 

Thanks again for the knowledge.  I was going to post a picture but not sure how to.

[Krampus]

@@tnmule20....just be careful with sizing. You may find very quickly that 65l gets filled up very fast. I do ultralight a great deal and I can fill my 85l pack pretty fast...usually with stuff others cannot fit in their pack. I don't mind. I like the extra space.

[Sentinel947]

Thanks for all the great suggestions.  I went to REI on Saturday and tried some packs.  I really like the Osprey Atmos 65.  The suspension keeps the pack off of your back so you don't get as sweaty.  Did not come home with it because I'm not ready to spend $300 on a pack yet.

 

So I started checking my local Craigslist and I found something interesting.  A gentleman in my town had a Jansport Rainier for sale.  He said it had never been used and he wanted $65.  I offered him $50 and now I'm the owner of a new to me backpack.  Now don't flame me too hard.  Yes is is an external frame pack but I like it.  I started loading it down and trekking around the yard and it felt almost as good as the $300 Osprey.  The external frame keeps the pack off your back and the weight distribution was mostly on my hips like it should be.  I am pleasantly surprised.  It has plenty of room inside for sleeping bag and  camp pillow.  I can strap my tent to the bottom and sleep pad to the top.  Has the front open compartment.  Lots of pockets.  I think it will suit me fine for now.

 

Thanks again for the knowledge.  I was going to post a picture but not sure how to.

 

Nice find. Internet can be a great resource to find gear cheaper. Full price is for the lazy, inexperienced, or desperate.

 

Externals work fine. They are a little heavy for my taste, but I'm not a beginning backpacker anymore. As long as it fits you and your gear it should suit you just fine. 

 

The Atmos is amazing. I have it's lightweight equivalent, the Exos. Went backpacking in the midwestern polar vortex this weekend. My entire kit with water and food was about 26 pounds. When I first started backpacking I would have been carrying like 50! 

[Stosh]

You missed the point I think. Technology has advanced since 1870. Or 1915. Just like that we use electricity instead of candles at home. Toilets instead of outhouses. Camping gear has likewise improved. 

 

That's fine at a camporee. If I'm hiking Shawnee State park with my Scouts, in an environment that most backpackers describe as  "masochistic", The first 9 miles contain about 2500ft of climbing. 

 

You can put a 40 pound kit on a 12 year old in your care, for nostalgia's sake. I'm going to use reasonable advances in technology that have taken place since 1915 to keep the Scouts and other adults from getting seriously injured or so banged up that they won't give up backpacking as a hobby. YMMV.

 

Sentinel947

 

 

No, I didn't miss the point.  When I was a scout, and not for the Federal Army of 1863, but a Boy Scout in 1963, I had a canvas tent, a canvas packs (Same Yucca I have today), no waist belt, we made our own bug lights, we dug our own latrines, and so I know how convenient the modern equipment is.  I also know how convenient established campsites are, I know how convenient, being close to the car/trailer combo can be. and I know what others only dream about because even after 50 years, I still enjoy cooking out of my mess kit on an open fire even though I can carry a backpack white gas stove if I want to. but which weighs more and the fuel even more.   A small tin can rocket stove can get my coffee going in the morning along with my oatmeal.  Just saying, the more one knows about the different options, the more opportunities for fun and adventure open up.

 

Oh, by the way, I also know what traveling across the country camping out of a Class-B RV is very convenient, so I think the point being missed is on your part.   

 

The Mrs. and I signed up for the North Country National Scenic Trail and the Hike 100 Challenge and probably won't be needing the RV for that.  So, let me know how those 12 year olds are planning on keeping up with us 60+ year olds.   THAT IS THE POINT!    

Edited April 11, 2016 by Stosh

[qwazse]

 ... I offered him $50 and now I'm the owner of a new to me backpack.  Now don't flame me too hard.  Yes is is an external frame pack but I like it.  ..

I ain't flaming anyone over their pack style if they can still afford some quality coffee and an espresso pot (not to mention parachord and some rated biners)!

 

My family is leaning hard toward internal frames. But, they also don't rig gear as much as I do. There are a lot of times when the middle of my pack remains untouched for several trips because everything I really need is in a pocket or tied/clipped on somewhere.

 

The back-webbing is probably the best tech improvement in packs over the years. Used to be odd-shaped gear knew how to "find" that one sore spot in your back and rub it right raw if you didn't stop then and there and repack.

 

New question to the group ... these tech materials lose water resistance after a while. Is that a "pitch the pack" factor for you? Or, do you just invest in the cover/garbage bag/tarp to compensate? The old canvas never really resisted water, so that was never an issue. From the get go, we knew if we didn't get the poncho cinched, the gear was gonna be soaked.

[Sentinel947]

No, I didn't miss the point.  When I was a scout, and not for the Federal Army of 1863, but a Boy Scout in 1963, I had a canvas tent, a canvas packs (Same Yucca I have today), no waist belt, we made our own bug lights, we dug our own latrines, and so I know how convenient the modern equipment is.  I also know how convenient established campsites are, I know how convenient, being close to the car/trailer combo can be. and I know what others only dream about because even after 50 years, I still enjoy cooking out of my mess kit on an open fire even though I can carry a backpack white gas stove if I want to. but which weighs more and the fuel even more.   A small tin can rocket stove can get my coffee going in the morning along with my oatmeal.  Just saying, the more one knows about the different options, the more opportunities for fun and adventure open up.

We're moving closer together. We've gone from 1870, to 1915, to 1963. Canvas packs are very different than a civil war blanket roll.   

 

At least we're arguing about hiking and gear philosophy rather than Ludditism. 

 

Sure, older gear can work. Old 60's Scout or Military gear is workable. If money is tight, and that's what's available, go for it. I love the places within a few hours drive that are wilderness campsites. I've dug my fair share of catholes. It would be a mistake to lump me in as somebody who is afraid to leave the campground and the car. 

 

That being said, I try to lighten my gear as much as what is safe and won't destroy my budget. With a lighter pack I can hike faster, see more, be in less pain afterward. I can lessen damage to my feet, knees and back, which should hopefully let this millennial take my grandchildren backpacking many years from now. 

 

I'll also admit that I am a huge gear head. I love fiddling with the latest technology. I just ordered a water filter today for $20 that lets you drink straight out of the water source. Sawyer mini or something like that. 

 

There are absolutely a bunch of ways to go about this. But I'm not convinced the average Scouter or scout is going to be able to backpack with a civil war era kit. Most folks don't have 1960's scout gear floating around, which if they did, would be almost too valuable from a historical perspective to use as day to day gear. Hence, I try to generalize my advice to what I perceive to be the general hikers experience. Beyond Scouter.com I read and contribute at backpacking enthusiasts sites like backpackinglight, several reddit threads. 

 

As always, YMMV

 

Sentinel947 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Sentinel947

[Stosh]

Quoted because it's solid advice. 

 

I also like Ziplocks. You can spend 15$ per bag for a silnylon stuff sack that can hold your clothes, or you can just use 10 cent ziplocks..... I do recommend a waterproof nylon compression sack for sleeping bags. https://www.rei.com/product/730882/sea-to-summit-event-compression-dry-sack

 

Another nice feature to consider on packs are mesh stretch pockets on the back. I tend to keep a good deal of stuff in them. Fuel, plastic garden spade(for digging cat holes), first aid kit in a ziplock, bear bag rope, carabiners, rain cover for my pack, rain jacket for me. 

 

The only stuff that actually goes in my pack is the sleeping bag at the bottom, clothes next, then food. I lash/tie my sleeping pad to the bottom of the pack, and I put my tent under the lid. Sometimes depending on the weather I can get my tent to go into my pack standing straight up, then put my clothes and food on the other side. Another good way to store a tent if you have trouble fitting it in the pack is to take it out of it's bag, put the poles in a water bottle pocket, and use straps to hold it down. then put the tent body and fly in the body of your pack. 

 

 

Gee, I thought everyone used ziplocks.  I have my Yucca pack and it is not waterproof, but it is always lined with a garbage bag and everything in the pack is also in ziplocks.  I can leave my pack outside the tent in a heavy rain storm and the only thing that gets wet is the pack.  I have NOTHING in terms of gear that is waterproof except my dry-bags I use for kayaking.

 

When my boys "present themselves ready for a campout" they had better make sure that their gear is water proof.  There's a river a few blocks from the CO's where we meet.  I have challenged every boy that if I toss their pack into the river they can toss in mine.  I have even had a few take on the challenge.  No one has ever had wet gear on an outing and if they do, no one is sympathetic. 

[Krampus]

New question to the group ... these tech materials lose water resistance after a while. Is that a "pitch the pack" factor for you? Or, do you just invest in the cover/garbage bag/tarp to compensate? The old canvas never really resisted water, so that was never an issue. From the get go, we knew if we didn't get the poncho cinched, the gear was gonna be soaked.

 

Heck now. Given that they are making generic pack covers that are amazingly good these days, it nearly defeats the purpose of needing a pack to be water proof/resistant.

 

There are few things I would throw out just because they are degrading slightly. My tent's fly is starting to do the same. I went to an REI sale where they were getting rid of things like extra poles, flies and such a while back. Spent $40 on an extra fly for my tent. Now I can rotate in that spare any time.