Advice Needed or Lifesaving or Meritorius Action Award Application

[Eagle94-A1]

What is it with my family and water?

 

All joking aside, I need some advice, especially from folks who have been involved in the process.

 

Long story short, middle son's Webelos den is at a local park doing Ultimate. Once they were finished, he sees something in the lake at the park. At first they think it's a dead animal, then my wife see the tennis shoes. She jumps in, swims to the body, and pulls it to shore. She begins CPR but then stops because the DL and ACM are both doctors and take over doing CPR until EMS arrives. EMS was able to shock him and airlift him to a hospital, but he passed away a few days later according to the obituary.

 

Several folks say put her and the other leaders in for the Medal of Merit. But  looking at the paperwork this line stands out:

 

"2. Lifesaving or meritorious actions performed as part of the lineof duty of a trained lifesaver-i.e. doctor, nurse, lifeguard, first responder- will not be considered."

 

So should the nominations for the two doctors even be attempted. It didn't happen in their practice or on the job?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Krampus]

@@Eagle94-A1, you might ask the people involved how they feel.

Personally, whether the person lived or died I would be reluctant to accept such an award. That's just me. Perhaps the folks involved may not want it because the person did not survive. Maybe they would.
 

If they say they are fine with the submission I would submit it and let the chips fall where they may. The leaders in question, while medical professionals, were not in the line of duty when they performed the actions IMHO.

[Stosh]

Wife?  Most certainly if she's a registered scouter, otherwise she's just going to have to just settle for being a hero!

 

Being a doctor does not guarantee emergency knowledge one bit.  I was an EMT-A for 15 years and I can assure everyone that those people out there in the field know more about saving lives than pediatricians with all the equipment at their disposal, plastic surgeons, nurses who handle shots and bed pans and have equipment to make life comfortable for patients, but even trauma doctors have not dragged someone out of a car that has rolled over in a muddy ditch, hasn't done CPR over and over and over again and never had the defib training as we have today and never got a save, who no matter how hard they tried, someone died on their watch in the back of an ambulance hurrying as fast as they can trying to get to the hospital. 

 

In the ER one simply clamps off a bleeding artery to save a little girl's life.  EMT's in the field pinch the artery with finger and thumb and hold it for the 1/2 hour race to the hospital.  The pain from the cramp will last for 2-3 days afterwards, but one knows they can't let go or the little girl dies.  By the way, one does that in the back of your car while the Mrs. drives because if you drive to meet the ambulance, you can cut down the time it takes to get to the hospital.

 

I don't care if it's Mr. Joe Average so saw it on TV, a volunteer EMT called to the scene or a doctor passing by, holding an artery, saving a life outside a hospital, is NOT part of their line of duty anymore than Mr. Joe Average who has had CPR and Standard Red Cross First Aid Training. 

 

Remember the  Wife, the DL and the ACM were doing CPR, they weren't doing anything more than what anyone with CPR training would be doing to try and save this boy's life.  Let's just look at it this way.  If this were a hospital setting the doctor would have staff there to do the CPR......  They probably knew as much about it as any one else trained in CPR.

 

PUT THEM ALL IN FOR MERITORIOUS RECOGNITION.  Being there as a DL or ACM was not part of his duty as medical personnel.

[Stosh]

@@Eagle94-A1, you might ask the people involved how they feel.

 

Personally, whether the person lived or died I would be reluctant to accept such an award. That's just me. Perhaps the folks involved may not want it because the person did not survive. Maybe they would.

 

If they say they are fine with the submission I would submit it and let the chips fall where they may. The leaders in question, while medical professionals, were not in the line of duty when they performed the actions IMHO.

 

No one accepts the honor of being bestowed the title of Hero, it is given by others whether they accept it or not.  I ran 15 years as an EMT-A in a small town in Iowa because without people like me other people would die.  None of us saw ourselves as doing anything heroic.  It wasn't even a job, it was just what you did because your neighbors relied on you to take care of them.

[Krampus]

No one accepts the honor of being bestowed the title of Hero, it is given by others whether they accept it or not.  I ran 15 years as an EMT-A in a small town in Iowa because without people like me other people would die.  None of us saw ourselves as doing anything heroic.  It wasn't even a job, it was just what you did because your neighbors relied on you to take care of them.

 

I know. I agree.

 

But I know EMTs, docs and nurses who -- if they lost someone -- may not want the recognition for whatever reason. Everyone is different. Of course they could always decline if they want.

[Eagle94-A1]

Clarification, not a scout or a youth. It was an older gentleman. He had cardiac surgery previously because the docs noticed the scar from the previous surgery. Apparently the gentleman had a heart attack while fishing, and collapsed into the lake.

[Stosh]

A life is a life, that's all that counts.    One does what one needs to do and let the chips fall where they may.  Sometimes one wins, sometimes they lose, but whatever chance that person may have had, it was provided the best they could.

[qwazse]

Clarification, not a scout or a youth. It was an older gentleman. He had cardiac surgery previously because the docs noticed the scar from the previous surgery. Apparently the gentleman had a heart attack while fishing, and collapsed into the lake.

Call your council advancement chair and put it in. Two days of fighting chance, a family who knows people out there took care of their loved one as best they could, with your wife putting herself at risk. That all means something.

 

I think there is a place on the form for the rescuer's statement, so you will need their approval. Best case for it is to recognize what's important in front of your scouts. (You will also need to make sure they understand the perils of water rescue and how to do it within the limits of their abilities ... but that will be for another day.)

 

The award ceremony at our council coordinated meetings was pretty cool. I got to hear about the actions of several different scouts and scouters.

[Eagledad]

We had a couple of scouts get the award. It is not an easy award to get; National is very picky who they honor. That being said, I personally would submit a request for everyone involved. Then wait for National to set limits and ask the questions. The process can take awhile, maybe a couple years. So give it a shot and get started.

 

And a good well done from the Scouter.com forum.

 

Barry

[SSScout]

In thinking about it, thru my Scout career, I have had training in no less than six different techniques .  Each was an improvement over the previous, based on the science then known. Each was the best known at the time for dealing with drowning, water accidents, heart attacks.  Each was presented as an OPPORTUNITY, a POSSIBILITY  to save a life. At any given time, one of your Scouts may be the only one around that has any knowledge of those techniques.    In my 68 years, I have only been called upon to use that last learned  technique once. 

 

Teach your boys (and girls!).  Learn the CPR your self.   Learn the Bee Gees song.  Contact your local Red Cross, your local hospital, they will be glad to help you organize a CPR class in your Scout District.   Make an opportunity for  that possibility  .

[Stosh]

When a person suffers a heart stoppage, if there is no one around that knows CPR, that person stays dead.  If there is someone around that knows CPR, that person has a chance at life.  Those are the only two options at that time and if that person is someone you know and love, you can either watch them die or try and save them.  Your knowledge of CPR is the only difference.

[Krampus]

LOL @@SSScout with "Stayin' Alive". You've never had a cpr class taught you someone under 40 have you?

 

They use "Hip Don't Lie" by Shakira now. Your Scouts won't know that other song.

[Eagle94-A1]

I'm back from camping. I added the clarificatio to state it wasn't a scout who died.

 

Talked to the CM and he wants to nominate the. Told the ACM involved, and is a little embarresed about it, didn't think she and the. other doctor did a big deal, but definately agrees wife needs to be put in. She is fillling out the paperwork. for my wife.

 

I am somewhat hesittant to get witnezs statements from the Cubs, especially my youngest. He was affected by the situaation when we got home and the next day, and has had a few nightmares about it.

 

ASM with the police stated a police report was filed by a guy who was there. Since it's a public record, and he saw everything, i am going to try and get that for the CM to fill out. Since I'm the ‘‘paperwork guru'' he wants my help with the paperwork.

 

On a different note, I use the IMPERIAL MARCH or STAYING ALIVE, but not ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST:-) Never heard the HIP DON'T LIE song before, going to have to look it up.

[jpstodwftexas]

 

 

 

"2. Lifesaving or meritorious actions performed as part of the lineof duty of a trained lifesaver-i.e. doctor, nurse, lifeguard, first responder- will not be considered."

 

 

 

Were they there as paid Medical Staff?

If not they were not performing life saving actions in the line of Duty.

 

Sorry to hear that the efforts were unsucessful

[scoutldr]

Like military members, I think most heathcare professionals consider themselves "on duty" 24/7.  If they had NOT responded, they would be violating their oath and possibly facing legal liability.  That being said, I would submit the paperwork for all, and see how far it goes.  At the very least, the Council can issue a Certificate of Merit.