BSA Program Planning web article jumps the rails

[SSScout]

The problem boils down to the need of (many) adults to "Get Things Done".  There are some who have no patience in letting kids /Scouts get things done in their own time and way.  How, exactly , did the ADULTS learn to do it?

 

I will refer you to our well known training consultants, Mssrs. Bob and Ray:    "Wait for it".    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktYwuw9Mnjo

[TAHAWK]

Wait .................................................for .....................................................it.

[TAHAWK]

I am informed that the problems with the website article on programming will be corrected.

[chrisking0997]

Beyond the adult tendency to take charge, BSA presently has no training that discusses even half of the Patrol Method or has as its objective that the trainee learn what makes up the Patrol Method.  The results are hardly surprising.  

 

However, there are people in the upper echelons of BSA who are advocating for the Patrol Method and for training in the Patrol Method.  

 

agreed.  Maybe national could find the time to create meaningful online training for the boys instead of seeing how convoluted they can make adult training.   And no, I did not manage to type that out with a straight face

[RichardB]

Just an FYI - the material is being revised to reflect the updated SPL handbook.  'tis a work in progress to sync up all the materials.    

[TAHAWK]

It takes a constant effort to insure that a large organization speaks with one voice.

 

The story goes that Bill was wont to read everything Scoutly and had no reluctance to point out internal conflicts (or errors) in BSA publications. That is one more reason that his Silver Buffalo Citation calls him the "Voice of Scouting."

 

In Bill's memory, I (again) point out that the BSA Complete Wilderness Training Manual by Hugh McManners, Metro Books, 2015, advocates on p. 32 use of the khukuri (more commonly and incorrectly the "kukri"). This is the short sword famously used by the Gurkhas as a weapon and chopping tool. It runs about two pounds and almost 1/2" think and can remove body parts even more readily than the axe.

 

I have rationalized that the khukuri escapes the G2SS discouragement of "large sheath knives" as it is a sword carried in a scabbard.

Edited April 13, 2016 by TAHAWK

[RichardB]

Somewhat off topic but maybe you should review the Tools section of the Boy Scout Handbook 2016 version and the Guide to Safe Scouting on the whole knife issue.   

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss08.aspx#f 

[RememberSchiff]

Somewhat off topic but maybe you should review the Tools section of the Boy Scout Handbook 2016 version and the Guide to Safe Scouting on the whole knife issue.   

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss08.aspx#f

Machetes are ok.

[Krampus]

Machetes are ok.

 

...but not bubble ball. Go figure.

[TAHAWK]

Somewhat off topic but maybe you should review the Tools section of the Boy Scout Handbook 2016 version and the Guide to Safe Scouting on the whole knife issue.   

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss08.aspx#f

Right on topic: inconsistent messages.

 

The "large sheath knives" language went away from G2Ss in 2015 and the Handbook in 2016 - but remains in the Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders syllabus at Scouting.Org

 

IN 2008 BSA said in Boys' Life that The best type of knife for camping trips — and most any other outdoor activity, for that matter — is a short, fixed-blade knife with a beefy handle."

 

In 2011 BSA added these words to the G2SS: "We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

 

But where are the training materials on how to use, handle, and store a sheath knife? Not in the Handbook. Not in adult training materials. So we have an important safety-related "duty" but BSA gives no guidance on how to address that duty. The implicit message is inconsistent with the explicit message.

 

Meanwhile, we have an official BSA publication encouraging the use of khukuris.

 

Is it the END OF THE WORLD? No. But it's an issue I regularly see in training Scouters.

 

Clearer messages are more easily communicated and more credible.

[Eagle94-A1]

Right on topic: inconsistent messages.

 

The "large sheath knives" language went away from G2Ss in 2015 and the Handbook in 2016 - but remains in the Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders syllabus at Scouting.Org

 

IN 2008 BSA said in Boys' Life that The best type of knife for camping trips — and most any other outdoor activity, for that matter — is a short, fixed-blade knife with a beefy handle."

 

In 2011 BSA added these words to the G2SS: "We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

 

But where are the training materials on how to use, handle, and store a sheath knife? Not in the Handbook. Not in adult training materials. So we have an important safety-related "duty" but BSA gives no guidance on how to address that duty. The implicit message is inconsistent with the explicit message.

 

Meanwhile, we have an official BSA publication encouraging the use of khukuris.

 

Is it the END OF THE WORLD? No. But it's an issue I regularly see in training Scouters.

 

Clearer messages are more easily communicated and more credible.

 

AMEN!

[Stosh]

It has always amazed me that so many adults grab their chests and gasp in horror whenever we talk about sheath knives,  They are dangerous!  They are unsafe, Boys haven't been trained in dealing with fixed blade knives.  And when all the smoke has settled the boys all go back to their campsites, dig around blindly in their chuck boxes for the unsheathed butcher knife and start hacking away at the potatoes for supper.  The guy next to him is wielding a fillet knife on the carrots because he couldn't find a paring knife, and on one thinks there's anything wrong with this picture.

 

If the Cubs are expected to put up a whittling yard and the Boy Scouts are to put up an ax yard, maybe someone ought to put up a kitchen yard so that 6"-8" knives have a proper place to be wielded. 

[TAHAWK]

One camp said "No fixed-blade knives are allowed anywhere on the Reservation property."

 

Their "Trading Post," of course sold all manner of fixed-blade "cooking" knives - some in sheaths.

[Stosh]

One camp said "No fixed-blade knives are allowed anywhere on the Reservation property."

 

Their "Trading Post," of course sold all manner of fixed-blade "cooking" knives - some in sheaths.

 

Oh, good, I'm glad we got that all cleared up.  So a fillet knife?  Is that a sheath knife or a food prep knife?  And seriously folks!  Why are we letting our boys put knives in the chuck boxes WITHOUT SHEATHES?  Next time they reach in to get a knife, they could seriously cut themselves.  THIS IS WHY I HAVE A KNIFE BLOCK ON MY COUNTER AND NO KNIVES IN DRAWERS!  What's the lesson here?

Edited April 14, 2016 by Stosh

[Eagle94-A1]

All this talk about sheath knives, Why do I want this knife for bushcraft?