Community Service Hours

[Krampus]

Looks like the Girl Scout guidelines for campsite selection (which explains why so few go back-country.)

I like @RemeberSchiff's link a little better because it pulls together multiple sources and frees scouts and scouters to think for themselves.

 

My one concern is that was a council doc, not a national doc. They also reference a document which I meant to link to which is the which is the activities and civil service guide.

 

I don't dispute your assertion. You aren't wrong. However, the national BSA resources don't make that distinction. 

 

Exactly. BSA keeps it pretty simple.

[CalicoPenn]

 "As long as it's at least six hours of work. That's my opinion. In this situation, that's all I can offer you."

 

 

 

Since the requirement for Star and Life say take part in service projects (note the plural) totaling 6 hours, why not accept an hour of leaf raking at an elderly neighbors yard as one component of 6 hours of service instead of looking for 6 hours of service raking the neighbors yard?

 

I hated the Bryant answer - yes, the Scoutmaster in that situation (requiring service projects to be part of a Troop service project) may be technically correct, but he would also be really short-sighted and would be putting up another adult barrier to advancement.  It may meet the letter of the requirement, but it certainly wouldn't meet the spirit of the requirement, or the spirit of the advancement policy that says that boys earn their ranks at their own pace.  If a Troop only does a service project twice a year, couldn't that be seen as holding up a Scout from advancing at his own pace?

 

As for the original posted question - I would say "It Depends".  I wouldn't be quick to say no but I wouldn't be quick to say yes - I'd want a little more information on the project - Is it picking up trash in places that an association already or normally pays someone to do?  I'd say no - but is it picking up trash along a neglected stream running through the community that isn't typically done?  Yeah, I would probably say yes. 

 

[Sentinel947]

 "As long as it's at least six hours of work. That's my opinion. In this situation, that's all I can offer you."

 

 

 

Since the requirement for Star and Life say take part in service projects (note the plural) totaling 6 hours, why not accept an hour of leaf raking at an elderly neighbors yard as one component of 6 hours of service instead of looking for 6 hours of service raking the neighbors yard?

 

I hated the Bryant answer - yes, the Scoutmaster in that situation (requiring service projects to be part of a Troop service project) may be technically correct, but he would also be really short-sighted and would be putting up another adult barrier to advancement.  It may meet the letter of the requirement, but it certainly wouldn't meet the spirit of the requirement, or the spirit of the advancement policy that says that boys earn their ranks at their own pace.  If a Troop only does a service project twice a year, couldn't that be seen as holding up a Scout from advancing at his own pace?

 

As for the original posted question - I would say "It Depends".  I wouldn't be quick to say no but I wouldn't be quick to say yes - I'd want a little more information on the project - Is it picking up trash in places that an association already or normally pays someone to do?  I'd say no - but is it picking up trash along a neglected stream running through the community that isn't typically done?  Yeah, I would probably say yes. 

 

 

Good catch! It doesn't need to be 6 hours all in one single project! 

 

I've edited my comment to reflect the lost plural s in project! 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Sentinel947

[Krampus]

I hated the Bryant answer - yes, the Scoutmaster in that situation (requiring service projects to be part of a Troop service project) may be technically correct, but he would also be really short-sighted and would be putting up another adult barrier to advancement.  It may meet the letter of the requirement, but it certainly wouldn't meet the spirit of the requirement, or the spirit of the advancement policy that says that boys earn their ranks at their own pace.  If a Troop only does a service project twice a year, couldn't that be seen as holding up a Scout from advancing at his own pace?

 

But if the kid in question is trying rake the neighbor's leaves to get out of doing a troop service project because, well, going next door and raking their leaves is easier, then that too does not meet the litmus test of the "spirit of the requirement".

 

The SM needs to use his head. If a kid you volunteers all the time wants to rake the neighbor's yard for credit, why not. If the kid is doing it because it is easy or he simply cannot be bothered to come to a troop function, well, then maybe not. Is the kid honest? Will he really spend 2 hours working or will Helicopter Mom or Dad come and help?

 

I see nothing wrong with compelling less-than-active Scouts to get their hours doing unit-based projects. For NH/NJHS or any other youth group you need to get your hours approved AND they usually have to done with that group...why should Scouting be any different?

[Stosh]

I have seen boys doing their altar boy routine of 5 minutes worth of work and 1 hour worth of credit.

[CalicoPenn]

@@Krampus - yeah, I understand that desire to make sure the Scout isn't taking the lazy way out - but then I wonder if a Scoutmaster insisting that Scouts can only do service projects with the Troop because he doesn't trust them to do what they said they would do when getting approval from their Scoutmaster for their service project(s) is a) allowing the Scouts to live the first point of the Scout Law (A Scout is Trustworthy) and b) is living the first part of the Scout Law him/herself?

 

Like I said, it's a technically correct answer - but it just doesn't pass the Scout-like test for me.  Maybe I would feel different if there were multiple opportunities for Troop service projects - preferable monthly, at least quarterly) but I sure would be pretty angry as a parent if the Troop only did Service Projects in May and August and my son could only get credit for Troop service projects and he earned his Star in June - he would have to, by the Scoutmaster's policy, wait well over the time in rank requirements to earn Life.

[fred johnson]

I see nothing wrong with compelling less-than-active Scouts to get their hours doing unit-based projects. For NH/NJHS or any other youth group you need to get your hours approved AND they usually have to done with that group...why should Scouting be any different?

 

I can't speak for you and yours, but for me and mine I'd would not use the service hour requirement to manipulate the scout ... i.e. "compelling".   Service is to be congratulated, not to be held hostage.

[Krampus]

@@Krampus - yeah, I understand that desire to make sure the Scout isn't taking the lazy way out - but then I wonder if a Scoutmaster insisting that Scouts can only do service projects with the Troop because he doesn't trust them to do what they said they would do when getting approval from their Scoutmaster for their service project(s) is a) allowing the Scouts to live the first point of the Scout Law (A Scout is Trustworthy) and b) is living the first part of the Scout Law him/herself?

 

Like I said, it's a technically correct answer - but it just doesn't pass the Scout-like test for me.  Maybe I would feel different if there were multiple opportunities for Troop service projects - preferable monthly, at least quarterly) but I sure would be pretty angry as a parent if the Troop only did Service Projects in May and August and my son could only get credit for Troop service projects and he earned his Star in June - he would have to, by the Scoutmaster's policy, wait well over the time in rank requirements to earn Life.

I don't disagree entirely. The "only troop projects" thing is a bit much. Of course this is all case by case anyway. Having the ultra-vigilant Scout ask to do 10 hours raking an elderly neighbor's yard might fly. Having Johnny Shirksalot ask to do the same project might not fly.

 

It is hard for me to judge based on volume. I must get 20+ requests a month from our Scouts for various, non-troop-based projects. It's amazing to see how much these guys really do.

 

I can't speak for you and yours, but for me and mine I'd would not use the service hour requirement to manipulate the scout ... i.e. "compelling".   Service is to be congratulated, not to be held hostage.

 

Sometimes you need to. We have a standard service project we do and it is patrol-based. Each patrol is assigned an area and they take care of that area five times a year. With 6-10 guys in each patrol, and only 2-4 guys needed at any one event, you really only need to do this event 2 times a year depending on turn out. Before requiring guys to attend it was always the same 2-4 that would show up. By tying attendance at this project to going canoeing or something fun we got attendance to go up.... A LOT!!!

 

Sports require you to sell stuff, attend various things not training or game related. Same with band, chorus and orchestra. Drama club, German club, NHS, debate, etc., all have activities and service project they require you to attend to go to the fun stuff. Why should Scouts be any different *if* we don't abuse it?

 

I was required to help out once a month at our monthly paper drive as a Scout. Would I rather be out on my bike that morning? Sure! But I had fun tossing bags of newspapers around. It taught me the value of hard work. It taught me that, at times, life requires you to be somewhere when you'd rather be elsewhere. God forbid we continue to teach that lesson to today's generation.

 

Imagine what your long-term care facility will be like with the Scout you let pick and choose everything they want to do. I don't think your bed pan will ever get cleaned.

[blw2]

my 2 cents...

I've gotta say I agree with Sentinel's earlier post.

depending on the situation, I'd count it, as service to the HOA

 

A service project should teach citizenship, i.e.,what we as scouts can do for our community.

 

There's a difference between being a good neighbor and being a good citizen.

 

Doing a Good Turn ("does not provide a benefit to the general public"} in a Private Community where YOU live is being a good neighbor. Shoveling out the fire hydrant on your street is being a good neighbor. Doing a Good Turn for your Whole Community is being a good citizen and more in the scout spirit of helping others.

 

Put another way, as SM/ASM, I and anyone else should be able to go see the finished work and perhaps benefit. I don't want to visit

   And the sign said, Anybody caught trespassin' would be shot on sight 

 

http://www.yccbsa.org/OrgHeaders/406/Service%20Project%20Guidelines.pdf
 

isn't the neighborhood a community?

I have some neighborhoods around me that are as big as some small towns....

 

I agree with others.... depends on the situation (public neighborhood space vs private yard for example), but generally I would view it as service to the HOA.... which wouldn't be so different than service to say a museum or a small town's city square park.

Edited April 7, 2016 by blw2

[RememberSchiff]

isn't the neighborhood a community?

I have some neighborhoods around me that are as big as some small towns....

My meaning of neighborhood was "local" to scout so as there is a rather direct benefit to "scout" and his family. Clearing the fire hydrant across the street benefits your neighborhood and the scout. A neighborhood is usually a small subset of a community.  I suppose if your town is so small that the neighborhood is the town, maybe the scout is a Lone Scout?

 

Anyway semantics aside, I want my scouts to start thinking outside of their neighborhoods towards the needs of their community, then nation, and world.

Edited April 7, 2016 by RememberSchiff

[Stosh]

I had a major go-around on this issue once with a pastor of a church.  She wanted me to do a Bible Study on poverty and provided me a program.  It had slides with people from Ethiopia (obviously) and SE Asia, Eastern Europe, South America etc. all showing poor starving people.  The go-around was a result of the fact that after reviewing all this material the first question I asked the kids was, "How far away do poor starving people have to be before we see them."    The pastor got irked that the whole world mission approach wasn't touched on because one of the girls in the class immediately said, "I work as a checker at the local grocery store just down the street and I see it all the time."  We went on for an hour and a half on the subject.  Excellent discussions from the kids.  But the pastor reamed me a new one afterwards.  It was the last activity I ever did with that particular congregation.

 

We all see the world differently and when identifying service projects, this dynamic is going to come into play every time.

[CalicoPenn]

Well gee Stosh,

 

How is that Pastor supposed to up her donations from her congregation to support missions in Ethiopia if you convince all the parent's kids that there are as many poor people in their community as there are in Africa?

 

I'm guessing your District doesn't let you do FOS presentations either.   

[Stosh]

Well gee Stosh,

 

How is that Pastor supposed to up her donations from her congregation to support missions in Ethiopia if you convince all the parent's kids that there are as many poor people in their community as there are in Africa?

 

I'm guessing your District doesn't let you do FOS presentations either.   

 

It's all part of my grand scheme of never rising up to my lowest level of incompetence (The Peter Principle, 1969).  Creative Incompetence is a lifesaver from burnout! 

 

My Council draws straws to see who loses and has to give me my FOS pamphlet!

[blw2]

I have a 4,170 acre neighborhood being developed just down the road from my house to the South

and a 13,323 acre neighborhood being developed to the East

another 2,000 acre nearby

and a 1,500 acre on just breaking ground

some of these have their own schools, shopping districts, etc...

 

this is probably out of the context of this thread's intent, but

neighborhood/town/community... where's the line?

[Stosh]

I live in the country 25 miles from the county seat, 6 miles from shopping next closest town.   5 neighbors within a mile.  If I need 100 houses in my "neighborhood", it's gonna cover a huge amount of territory.