Talking politics around the campfire

[King Ding Dong]

Never

[Tampa Turtle]

Welcome back....

 

Well, there is debate and there is discussion and there is confrontation.  Friendly and Courteous and Kind come to mind.  Sometimes humor can allow recognition and illumination of problems in argument.  Sometimes smiling and mentioning a personal experience can help.  Sometimes walking away and hoping for a chance to catch the fellow alone to ask him, gently, did he really mean that last night? 

 

My ex-wife's grandfather on her dads side was an ex-Ku Klux Klanner, even tho he lived in California.  I only met him once, at  dinner.  I remember when he sought to disparage Hank Aaron as a baseball player because of his African heritage ( I am cleaning up the language) I gently reminded him that the baseball didn't notice who hit it, but the bat might remember who it hit. The silence at the table was palpable.  My ex-dad in law later congratulated me, said he never liked the SOB either, and then told me of the old man's KKK  history.

 

I had an english teacher in high school. Our class somehow had gotten on to WW2 history and the subject of the Nazi atrocities came up.  One of the boys in the class (all seniors), obviously parroting his parents, said that most of that stuff was fantasy, made up stuff.  Our teacher got noticeably red in the face. He sat down on his desk and proceeded to tell us , very calmly and matter of factly, of his time in the Third Army Division, how they were the first to walk into Buchenwald and what he , himself, had seen.  Our friend got very quiet, even years later I remember his quiet.  

 

Pick your time.   Think about what to say, even now, it may help the next time.   Scoutmaster's minute here?    Letter to the Editor , to get it off your chest? 

Letter to the Scouter's Digest of your  Association?  

I'll tolerate a lot of spirited as long as civil political discourse on camp-outs but no no on the Clan and Nazi stuff. I grew up in a jewish neighborhood is south florida and always remember my best friends mother who pulled up her sleeve and showed me her tattoo. As for any KKK comments Mr Turtle found out during his Genealogy MB practice that he had a black slave ancestor and I later had a DNA test that tended to confirm it. I always recall my grandfather telling us "never throw stones at another race or group because you dig a little you may be one".

[Tampa Turtle]

I see any discussions at the campfire by the youth as a teaching moment.  

 

I have very strong political and religious views BUT I have the understanding of the values, motivation and beliefs of people who believe differently than me.  Maybe it was the experience of being on the debate team in college, but I understand that there are two sides to every issue and that each side has valid points.  I actually get along very will with people across the political spectrum - why? Because I understand the issues rather than just adopt the glib slogans that pass for political discourse.

 

One of Robert Covey's Seven Habits was to "seek first to understand than to be understood."  I tend to ask questions like "what is your opinion based on?"  "where did you hear that?" "have you thought of the opposing viewpoint?"  "would it change your opinion if I told you ______?" "what would happen to _______ if you did _________?"  Despite my views, I tend to be neutral in questioning all viewpoints because I want the people to learn to think critically and to seek more knowledge in forming their opinions.  I'd rather someone disagrees with me after examining an issue in depth and reaching an opinion based on their values than have someone agree with me based on a glib twenty second quip carried on the news.  So I focus on the "why" rather than the "what?"

Well that is a talent. I freely talk about my faith and love theological discussions. You just have to be secure enough to not be threatened about another person's beliefs not agreeing with yours...

[Tampa Turtle]

Our Troop traditionally had a mix of both faiths and political allegiances. Us brown-shirts use to tell  newcomers we expected respect and civility of everyone and to adhere to the scout law. Sure there was some teasing but everyone got along. Occasionally someone would violate this rule; some were told not to come back if they couldn't behave better.

 

One of my dearest scouter friends (who died this year--I miss him dearly) and I had many fun debates on long car rides. He leaned right, I leaned left. We both seemed reassured that we believed in teaching scout ideals to the boys and encouraged political participation. One year we had a friendly rivalry--he did American Business MB and I did American Labor MB. He used to call me "Samuel Gompers".

[Scourge]

I think that it's healthy for young people to discuss politics in an appropriate environment.  Because in school and anywhere else, any interest in politics is looked down upon or silenced.  This raises a generation that doesn't even know what Democrats and Republicans are (not kidding.  An 18 year old asked me what a Republican was).  If the scouts bring up politics around a late campfire, I think it's ok under the right circumstances.  If a scout is being too aggressive, or is plain out lying, then the situation should be diffused.  Now since you're the adult, your position is a bit more complicated.  If you were to inject into the discussion, I'd suggest doing as my history teacher did way back in 8th grade.  Us students would have heated political debates.  These debates were never started by the teacher, but us students would start them.  It was a great stress reliever and they made us all think.  My teacher didn't give away his position but he'd ask us questions or bring up valid points to make us reconsider a statement we made.  He'd respect what we said and we felt safe voicing our opinions.  But he'd still make us really think about what we thought about in politics and WHY.  

[dilrod]

I've been looking at old copies of Scouting & Boy's Life and I see they used to do "get out the vote" campaigns in October of election years.  Looks like they went away after the 60s.

 

Seems like a good project, especially teaching that they aren't campaigning for any particular candidate, only encouraging adult Americans to exercise this important right rather than flaming each other on Facebook.

 

Is anyone aware of Scouts doing these anymore?  

[Stosh]

It is no longer policy for Boy Scouts to be involved in any political activity even if it's non-partisan.  The closest one gets today is Memorial Day observances and 4th of July picnics.  They do have 3 MB's on citizenship that seem to give some kind of political education and we do say the Pledge at opening flags.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Stosh

[Tampa Turtle]

You could do a flag ceremony at a political rally and as soon as that and the pledge is done all uniformed scouts and scouters leave; they could attend as individuals as long as they change out of their uniforms.

 

In our units we encourage boys to discuss provided it stays civil and does not affect group cohesion. Adults are expected to be apolitical to he boys and always respectful of elected leaders (so someone is always unhappy!). We expect everyone to behave like gentlemen.

 

The boys will be discussing this and religion anyway when you are out of earshot.

[qwazse]

...

In our units we encourage boys to discuss provided it stays civil and does not affect group cohesion. Adults are expected to be apolitical to he boys and always respectful of elected leaders (so someone is always unhappy!). We expect everyone to behave like gentlemen.

 

The boys will be discussing this and religion anyway when you are out of earshot.

I expect our adults to be very clear on their political opinions. I expect them to have good reasons for holding them and to be able to convey that to the boys if asked.

They can respect the office without agreeing with the policies. The boys should see that.

Same goes for religion.

 

I never let the boys know how far they have to go to be out of earshot!

[Eagledad]

I expect our adults to be very clear on their political opinions. I expect them to have good reasons for holding them and to be able to convey that to the boys if asked.

They can respect the office without agreeing with the policies. The boys should see that.

Same goes for religion.

 

I never let the boys know how far they have to go to be out of earshot!

Boy, I'm not sure anyone has clear political opinions today. I would guess what you want is for the adults to be respectful. Much of the time that means just listening quietly.

 

All our adults expect from each other is that we be the proper roll models. 

 

Typically the adults campsite is too far away on troop campouts to hear much. But I try not to let the scouts know what I've heard the night before when the tents are stacked next to each other on wilderness camping like boundary Waters and backpacking. I remember having some very personal conversations with my tent mate when I was in scouts. I try to allow them that privacy.

 

Barry

[NJCubScouter]

It is no longer policy for Boy Scouts to be involved in any political activity even if it's non-partisan.  The closest one gets today is Memorial Day observances and 4th of July picnics.  They do have 3 MB's on citizenship that seem to give some kind of political education and we do say the Pledge at opening flags.

And First Class requirement 5 (at least in the 12th edition of the handbook, I don't know whether they changed the number) which requires the Scout to have a discussion with an attorney, teacher, etc. about their rights and obligations as a citizen. I am the primary designated person for these discussions in our troop. I have probably done 50+ of them over the years. I always make sure the discussion includes the right (and obligation) to vote, so that does touch on "politics" to some degree.

[Stosh]

When we were getting ready for the citizenship part of AOL award we were going to bring in a state senator.  One of the boys made a negative remark against Trump and I said, "Too bad you're too young to vote or my vote would cancel out yours."  Then another boy piped up and said something negative against Clinton and I said, "too bad you're too young to vote or my vote would cancel out yours."  Then they both got the notion that somehow I was going to vote twice.  I said, "Nope."  Then they got serious and wanted to know who I was going to vote for and I told them it depended on which of the two scouts I liked better."    Eventually we got around to voting for policies and not people.  It was a good dialogue.  By the way, the Senator I had come in to visit with the boys is one I did not nor would never vote for, but she did a very nice job covering citizenship with the boys and kept politics completely out of it.  Okay, so she gained one small Brownie point from me....  

 

Discussing citizenship and discussing politics are two different discussions.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Strictly speaking, voting isn't a right in the US.  States vary widely on whether/which ex-felons can vote; if it was a right, I don't think states (IA, KY, FL) could prohibit ex-felons from voting even after completing their sentences.

[Cambridgeskip]

When we were getting ready for the citizenship part of AOL award we were going to bring in a state senator.  One of the boys made a negative remark against Trump and I said, "Too bad you're too young to vote or my vote would cancel out yours."  Then another boy piped up and said something negative against Clinton and I said, "too bad you're too young to vote or my vote would cancel out yours."  Then they both got the notion that somehow I was going to vote twice.  I said, "Nope."  Then they got serious and wanted to know who I was going to vote for and I told them it depended on which of the two scouts I liked better."    Eventually we got around to voting for policies and not people.  It was a good dialogue.  By the way, the Senator I had come in to visit with the boys is one I did not nor would never vote for, but she did a very nice job covering citizenship with the boys and kept politics completely out of it.  Okay, so she gained one small Brownie point from me....  

 

Discussing citizenship and discussing politics are two different discussions.

I don't know how you found it getting a politician to speak to the scouts but I've seen it happen twice. On both occasions I was thoroughly impressed with how engaging and intelligent politicians of all parties can be when you get them away from the TV cameras and talking on a one to one or one to a small group basis.

 

A couple of years ago I got to take a small group to the annual scout reception at Parliament and last year we invited the candidates for the cambridge constituency at the general election for a hustings night. On both occasions I was very impressed, even with the candidate for UKIP, the one party I could simply never see myself voting for.

 

Such a pity they can't behave like that in parliament or any other time the TV cameras on them when I can be equally as unimpressed with all of them.

[SSScout]

""It is no longer policy for Boy Scouts to be involved in any political activity even if it's non-partisan.  The closest one gets today is Memorial Day observances and 4th of July picnics.  They do have 3 MB's on citizenship that seem to give some kind of political education and we do say the Pledge at opening flags.""

 

I invited the County Board of Elections to our Round Table. They set up a display of the new voting machine/method. Talked about recruiting Election Judges (adult position. Paid!) to work the polls, and student volunteers to help.   Fairly successful, new to some folks.