So what do you do when SM says a BOR isn't needed for Palm?

[Sentinel947]

I don't envy you. Mom is being ridiculous, but she doesn't seem like the kind of parent you are going to want to reason with.  

[5yearscouter]

_{Yeah I get the job of dealing with this as the new advancement chair and it's a lot of fun}

 

_{Point in my favor is that I have one of the oldest and most respected troop committee members/troop chaplain who sat on this board}

_{Each of the BOR members ad a heads up going into it that neither the parent, scout, sm nor adv chair could make them put a different date on the advancement form. That they had to unanimously decide if they were going to use a different date other than the date of the actual BOR.}

 

_{I also have made a  spreadsheet showing PERFECT dates for each and every BOR = this many eagle palms, and that is unattainable because we meet on Mondays so we aren't going to get SM conferences on weds or sunday etc. and showing the adjustment for that how many palms the scout could attain.} 

Edited April 4, 2016 by 5yearscouter

[Krampus]

Mom is furious, that scout will age out 5 weeks before he could get his 10th palm. The board feels like adjusting the date would be wrong also cause scout himself delayed BOR by 3 of the 5 weeks

 

Sorry, I hate to be the hard nut here but I'd have done the same thing!

 

It's his NINTH PALM!!!! For crying out loud, if the kid is 17, an Eagle with 8 Palms he knows DARN WELL (or should) what the process is!!

 

All of my guys know by the time they are Second Class EXACTLY what is required for EVERY rank. They know the SMC is the last step before the BOR. They know they contact the advancement chair for their BOR. They know how to follow up if they don't hear back, or if Mr. Smith verbally promised to schedule a BOR and didn't.

 

This kid was seemingly able to manage himself though high school without mommy getting in the way. He supposedly managed his homework, test schedule, sports events, project due dates, college applications, etc. The small process of doing something for the NINTH time should be autopilot by now!!!

 

Hold your ground. He's got enough palms. Maybe he will learn a lesson from this that mom can't bail him out of everything!

[5yearscouter]

Sorry, I hate to be the hard nut here but I'd have done the same thing!

 

It's his NINTH PALM!!!! For crying out loud, if the kid is 17, an Eagle with 8 Palms he knows DARN WELL (or should) what the process is!!

 

All of my guys know by the time they are Second Class EXACTLY what is required for EVERY rank. They know the SMC is the last step before the BOR. They know they contact the advancement chair for their BOR. They know how to follow up if they don't hear back, or if Mr. Smith verbally promised to schedule a BOR and didn't.

 

This kid was seemingly able to manage himself though high school without mommy getting in the way. He supposedly managed his homework, test schedule, sports events, project due dates, college applications, etc. The small process of doing something for the NINTH time should be autopilot by now!!!

 

Hold your ground. He's got enough palms. Maybe he will learn a lesson from this that mom can't bail him out of everything!

He's earned his FIRST palm

they are looking 2+ years into the future.  He ages out in may 2018

[Sentinel947]

He's earned his FIRST palm

they are looking 2+ years into the future.  He ages out in may 2018

You've got to be kidding. 

 

Mom is complaining that he won't be able to earn his 9th palm, when he's on his first palm??? 

 

I think this is actually an excellent opportunity for the CC and SM to sit down with Momma Bear and explain the importance of a young adult setting their own goals, because this sounds like momma's goal, not Scout-Son. 

[desertrat77]

He's earned his FIRST palm

they are looking 2+ years into the future.  He ages out in may 2018

Well....

 

I'm trying to think of how this whole thing is going to negatively impact his life, should he miss out on the coveted ninth/tenth palm.

 

Nothing comes to mind.

[Krampus]

He's earned his FIRST palm

they are looking 2+ years into the future.  He ages out in may 2018

 

That's even more ridiculous! Sorry, but when I see a Scout with more than three palms, alarm bells go off with me. There's more to Scouting than the bling.

 

At some point the SM and advancement chair need to chat with him about what real growth and leadership is. It is not about getting all the MBs or ten palms. No one other than mom and dad are going to count that as an accomplishment.

 

He should focus his efforts in giving back to the unit, helping to foster a sense of stewardship in the troop, counsel younger Scouts on adhering to the Law and Oath, help with other problems new Scouts may have (mentoring), etc. There's dozens of things this kid could be doing other than putting another notch on his belt.

 

If he were my Scout we'd be chatting about how he can give back to the unit. If the palms happen, they happen, but they're not as important as the bling-less mark you leave behind with a Scout, your patrol, your unit or your lodge (if OA).

[desertrat77]

@@Krampus, that's the right word..."bling."

 

The scout and/or mom may also be chasing the "earned every MB" title, which "unfortunately" doesn't come with its own patch or pin.

 

PS (Added)   When you consider the great scouts that don't make Eagle for one reason or another, or the scouts that earn Eagle by sheer force of will, crossing the finish line at the last second, the importance of palms seems rather small by comparison.

Edited April 4, 2016 by desertrat77

[Krampus]

@@Krampus, that's the right word..."bling."

 

The scout and/or mom may also be chasing the "earned every MB" title, which unfortunately doesn't come with its own patch or pin.

 

We've had some GREAT Eagle Scouts. SPLs, JASMs, Instructors, you name it. These kids walked on water as far as I'm concerned. I'd sooner have them manage something than several of my ASMs combined. NOT ONE had a single palm!! They got their Eagle, stayed in the troop, held leadership positions, ran events and program areas but didn't feel the need to earn another MB unless it interested them.

 

Planning ahead to get TEN palms...and then being p.o.'d that ten is not achievable and he'll have to "settle" with nine??? I can only shake my head.

 

One of our ASMs is on the review board at a local (very prestigious and pricey) university here in Big D. When he sees "Eagle" on an application he asks about their project, their time in Scouts, what the *did* not what they were *awarded*. He saw this thread too. He agrees, too many palms is a huge warning sign down the road. Just sayin'.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Krampus

[Sentinel947]

 

 

One of our ASMs is on the review board at a local (very prestigious and pricey) university here in Big D. When he sees "Eagle" on an application he asks about their project, their time in Scouts, what the *did* not what they were *awarded*. He saw this thread too. He agrees, too many palms is a huge warning sign down the road. Just sayin'.

He should make an account, so we can benefit from his experiences as well. Your Troop seems well run. 

[desertrat77]

We've had some GREAT Eagle Scouts. SPLs, JASMs, Instructors, you name it. These kids walked on water as far as I'm concerned. I'd sooner have them manage something than several of my ASMs combined. NOT ONE had a single palm!! They got their Eagle, stayed in the troop, held leadership positions, ran events and program areas but didn't feel the need to earn another MB unless it interested them.

 

Planning ahead to get TEN palms...and then being p.o.'d that ten is not achievable and he'll have to "settle" with nine??? I can only shake my head.

 

One of our ASMs is on the review board at a local (very prestigious and pricey) university here in Big D. When he sees "Eagle" on an application he asks about their project, their time in Scouts, what the *did* not what they were *awarded*. He saw this thread too. He agrees, too many palms is a huge warning sign down the road. Just sayin'.

Excellent insights, Krampus, thanks.

 

"...huge warning sign down the road."   I concur--the first time Johnny Scout gets a "C+, needs more work" on one of his term papers, he won't believe it.   And we'll have to stage an intervention for momma bear before she calls the prof, the dean and an attorney....

[5yearscouter]

You've got to be kidding. 

 

Mom is complaining that he won't be able to earn his 9th palm, when he's on his first palm??? 

 

I think this is actually an excellent opportunity for the CC and SM to sit down with Momma Bear and explain the importance of a young adult setting their own goals, because this sounds like momma's goal, not Scout-Son. 

yeah it is momma's goal, not the scout's goal.

[5yearscouter]

Excellent insights, Krampus, thanks.

 

"...huge warning sign down the road."   I concur--the first time Johnny Scout gets a "C+, needs more work" on one of his term papers, he won't believe it.   And we'll have to stage an intervention for momma bear before she calls the prof, the dean and an attorney....

He's homeschooled so mom has always been in control....

 

ok I have to stop

 

I'm being a little too judgmental and I have to face them tonight with calmness & sweetness and give clearheaded answers.

 

Troop BOR member/chaplain says I've known scouts who missed Eagle by two days and we didn't change the date for that, why should we change the date for this which is an award not a rank.

Edited April 4, 2016 by 5yearscouter

[qwazse]

Ya know, there's nothing saying you can't have the board of review before the three months are up.

 

Here's my take. If the kid's continuously active in the troop. If he's gaining leadership skills, if the required number of MBs are locked in well before the required tenure, if he's growing up strong and good ... smooth this BoR thing over as best you can.

 

So, the boy stunk at paperwork? It wasn't paperwork I ever had to fill out when I was a scout. So his palms against mine, I'm not seeing a difference, except he had to be more officious than me. He has a crack at 10, I'd do everything I could to make sure logistics aren't in the way.

 

Let the mom know you'll stand by the boy. If he wants to try to push the paperwork to get this MB train back on track, you'll help him. If he decides he'd rather slack there and do something different with his time, you'll help him.

[Krampus]

He should make an account, so we can benefit from his experiences as well. Your Troop seems well run. 

 

We had our "mama bears" long ago. They became (somewhat) extinct...thankfully. It was a looong road to get the parents out of the kids' hair. It still happens every other year or so but our guys know how to get the parents to leave.

 

We still struggle with the 15-16 age group. Girls, sports and school just kill that age group.