Uniforms and Scout Spirit

[ianwilkins]

I've always referred to it as Banana Republic Generals. 

 

All show, no go.

 

I think if we were to go with the fur coat and knickers, it would get Americanized to trench coat and pants, and that would not be good. 

 

Aaah, we also have  "all mouth and no trousers", no, actually, I don't really understand why no trousers either, it just is, for someone who talks the talk, but when it comes to it, doesn't walk the walk.

 

All fur coat and no knickers is I think a phrase for someone who acts classy/posh (fur coat), but isn't (no knickers).

 

Anyway, I'd never mark anyone down for a lack of uniform/incorrect wearing of, but I'm in a different country on that, even when it comes to many in my own country. I have a motley collection of scruff bags, and I run a youth club (apparently), yet somehow I also have a (UK) award of merit, go figure, as you might say.

[Stosh]

The only real palpable reason for the uniform in my book would be the boys tend to take scouting more seriously while in uniform.  They pay attention, they do things safer (don't want to wreck the uniform) etc.  It's kinda like when people used to dress up for church, going out, dates, theater, etc.  Now it's all blue jeans and flannel shirts and not only does it look like the person doesn't care, they act that way too.

[blw2]

scout in our troop do a uniform inspection almost every troop meeting.

I have no idea who or how the habit got started, but at some point the boys will all line up and some other boys will walk the line

 

The thing I don't like is that they have some pushup requirement for those not deemed to be in full uniform.

It just seems like hazing to me, even though it is done amongst plenty of giggles and silliness.  My read is that the boys are doing it, but they all see it as a "joke".

They are fairly good about uniforming, but the lean towards hazing bothers me.  I'm biting my tongue trying not to rock the boat too much, as the "new guy"

[TAHAWK]

"All hat and no cowboy."

[Stosh]

It is the PL's responsibility to make sure his boys look good for flags, inspection or not.  Going the extra mile only when one has to doesn't really solve any problems on an everyday basis.  If the boys come up short, a gentle reminder to help him improve seems to work pretty well for my boys.  This isn't to say that the occasional zipper problem after tucking one's shirt tail in isn't overlooked without a bit of "hazing".  A few times of that and the problem disappears for quite some time  No push ups, just a tease or two is all that is necessary.    

[TAHAWK]

Lesson: A gentle reminder from an adult can make things better.

[Stosh]

A gentle reminder from a respected PL is best.

[TAHAWK]

Let not the good be defeated by the search for the perfect.

[qwazse]

"all ice and no cream"

Oh, never mind.

[Krampus]

scout in our troop do a uniform inspection almost every troop meeting.

I have no idea who or how the habit got started, but at some point the boys will all line up and some other boys will walk the line

 

 

Uniforms are important and our youth leaders stress them as well. We do something similar but the guys with the low scores have to stay after and clean up.  

 

The great thing about kids is you always have a small group not in proper uniform...and it is usually the 14-16 crowd and not the new kids. Moreover, it is usually different people each time. They learn...eventually...but there has never been a lack of labor supply.

[blw2]

Uniforms are important and our youth leaders stress them as well. We do something similar but the guys with the low scores have to stay after and clean up.

 

even that rings of hazing to me....

[Stosh]

even that rings of hazing to me....

This all goes back to my earlier post about adults getting in there and messing around.  NEVER GET CAUGHT HOLDING THE BAG!

 

If one were to punish the boys for poor uniforming then everyone can blame the punishers. 

 

Situation A:

 

Parent: "Why are you always late when I come to pick you up?"

 

Johnny: "Mr. Stosh makes me stay after because I don't have scout socks on tonight."

 

Yeah, right, I want to deal with that one......  Johnny didn't take responsibility for wearing socks and Mr. Stosh gets the blame for it.

 

Situation B:

 

Parent: "How come the other boys are staying afterwards and you're not?"

 

Johnny:  "All the boys who had full uniform get to stay and have a treat.  I forgot to wear my scout socks."

 

So, now the blame falls squarely where it belongs..... and definitely not on me. 

[Krampus]

even that rings of hazing to me....

 

If a Scout does not clean his mess kit properly and he's asked to clean it again, is that hazing? Whenever a Scout doesn't meet a requirement (uniform), simply having a remediation activity as a consequence is not hazing in my book. Push ups? Sure. Singing for lost gear? If voluntary, I don't see the issue. Hanging around for clean up if you act up? Not hazing in my book, it's a consequence of poor Scout behavior.

 

We're off topic on the hazing issue so I will stop.

 

@@Stosh, but you are still going to hear it when Timmy complains to mommy that he didn't get any dessert. He won't give the whole story and all you will hear from Helicopter Mom is how mean Mr. Stosh was in not giving dessert. Been down that road with my parents. Holding them back for clean up was a natural consequence 99% of our parents get and support.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Krampus

[Sentinel947]

If a Scout does not clean his mess kit properly and he's asked to clean it again, is that hazing? Whenever a Scout doesn't meet a requirement (uniform), simply having a remediation activity as a consequence is not hazing in my book. Push ups? Sure. Singing for lost gear? If voluntary, I don't see the issue. Hanging around for clean up if you act up? Not hazing in my book, it's a consequence of poor Scout behavior.

 

We're off topic on the hazing issue so I will stop.

 

@@Stosh, but you are still going to hear it when Timmy complains to mommy that he didn't get any dessert. He won't give the whole story and all you will hear from Helicopter Mom is how mean Mr. Stosh was in not giving dessert. Been down that road with my parents. Holding them back for clean up was a natural consequence 99% of our parents get and support.

@@Krampus, I'll try to not derail this thread, but words mean something. I think you'll agree. 

 

Hazing is defined as:

 

humiliating and sometimes dangerous initiation rituals, especially as imposed on college students seeking membership to a fraternity or sorority 

 

Or

 

the imposition of strenuous, often humiliating, tasks as part of a program of rigorous physical training and initiation.

 

Push ups would qualify. Singing can be considered humiliating and therefore hazing. Cleaning the meeting room? Maybe if they had to clean the room while everybody else watched them, but not inherently hazing. 

 

My troop doesn't do uniform inspections. In the nuclear fireball that is my troops old policies and procedures, the PLC hasn't gotten around to that yet. As for cleaning, the SPL assigns a different patrol each week to be the service patrol, which involves vacuuming and reseting the meeting room. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Sentinel947
Edited for definitions and expansion of reasoning.

[Stosh]

If a Scout does not clean his mess kit properly and he's asked to clean it again, is that hazing? Whenever a Scout doesn't meet a requirement (uniform), simply having a remediation activity as a consequence is not hazing in my book. Push ups? Sure. Singing for lost gear? If voluntary, I don't see the issue. Hanging around for clean up if you act up? Not hazing in my book, it's a consequence of poor Scout behavior.

 

We're off topic on the hazing issue so I will stop.

 

@@Stosh, but you are still going to hear it when Timmy complains to mommy that he didn't get any dessert. He won't give the whole story and all you will hear from Helicopter Mom is how mean Mr. Stosh was in not giving dessert. Been down that road with my parents. Holding them back for clean up was a natural consequence 99% of our parents get and support.

 

I was using "treats" as an extreme example.  Of course Mommy is going to whine, but giving the better uniformed boys "perks" usually is subtly enough to get the point across that doing things right will be noticed in a positive way and if doing things incorrectly will be ignored and those positive things won't be coming your way.  My boys know that I accept brownie points and extra effort and store them up for future reference/opportunities.