The PLC Has Decided: Mixed Aged Patrols in May

[TAHAWK]

The troop parents should be "invited" to a required coffee:  http://www.scouting.org/Training/Adult/Supplemental/OrientationforNewBoyScoutParents.aspx

 

It's not the whole story, but it's batter than the Scoutmaster training.

[Stosh]

There's nothing going on in the troop that adults can't make it worse.

[TAHAWK]

Stosh, have you noticed that you are [GASP!] an adult.  Suppose there is anything adults can make better?

[Stosh]

Stosh, have you noticed that you are [GASP!] an adult.  Suppose there is anything adults can make better?

 

TAHAWK, I take it you've never [GASP] talked to my Ex, my children, my wife or anyone that has been around me for more than 5 minutes.   I think the clinical term is Pan Syndrome.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Stosh

[TAHAWK]

That would be Peter Pan Syndrome, and no I have not.

[blw2]

Eagle 94, I didn't think anyone else from my troop was here... so your troop must be the clone of ours!

 

We haven't had that exact exchange of events, but very well could have.

 

Currently, my inside the head voice is screaming at the top off my lungs about our money handling, since the money thing is very adult driven and adult handled. 

 

Since I have been asked to take the treasurer job, I sure do wish I had an experienced treasurer to brainstorm with!

anyway, I think I'll revive another thread about treasury stuff.... just wanted to chime in about the adult involvement thing

[Sentinel947]

It's never a perfect product. 

Had a email cross my inbox from the Camping Coordinator. Rehashed the new system and deadlines for signing up for outings, when food will be bought, when scouts will be paid. It also emphasizes that the parents should take the scout out to buy food, and that the Scout should be making the buying decisions, not mom or dad. Definitely a wonderfully and properly crafted system......

However, it's something that should have been pushed through the PLC first. Camping Chair should have gone to the SPL and said "I'm having these problems, can you talk about it in the PLC and see what solutions ya'll have?" 

Instead, it's dictated.. Oh well.. Continuous improvement, and that's not a hill I'm willing to die all over. 

[blw2]

exactly what I'm internally screaming over, Sentinel947!

These things just aren't going from or through the scouts!

 

and I guess I'm looking at it similarly, not a hill to die on.... just yet anyway....

Sadly, I think a lot of folks feel this way, and so nobody 'dies' first to make the change.... and the scouts continue to 'suffer'

[Sentinel947]

exactly what I'm internally screaming over, Sentinel947!

These things just aren't going from or through the scouts!

 

and I guess I'm looking at it similarly, not a hill to die on.... just yet anyway....

Sadly, I think a lot of folks feel this way, and so nobody 'dies' first to make the change.... and the scouts continue to 'suffer'

Something like that is just too high scope. 

 

You gotta crawl before you can walk. Walk before run. 

 

If your youth leadership is just being introduced to the patrol method, just starting the transition from participating in a program the adults run, to one they plan and lead, something like what I described above isn't worth it, when the basics aren't being done. 

 

@@blw2 have you been listening to Clarke Green's last three podcasts?

[Stosh]

So this is why the Treasurer works closely with the Scribe.  It's a shared responsibility at first until the parents learn to trust the boys wearing the POR patches.  This goes directly back to the whole adult announcement: "We expect you boys to take on leadership, run your own show, make your own decisions, but in the end let it be known that we don't trust you with the really, really important adult things."

 

If one doesn't truly trust the boys with leadership then they aren't teaching it well enough to the boys.  It's a lot easier to do the adult management thingy where: "If you want it done right, you do it yourself."  No leadership needed in that case.  But if one is in the business of providing leadership training, they had better start doing it.  If the boys can't handle it, maybe the problem lies in the effectiveness of the leadership training being taught.  If one teaches poorly defined concepts of management posing as leadership, then we going to get poor leadership out of the boys.  The problem starts and is perpetuated by the adults.  I, too, wouldn't trust some of the boys having been taught poorly the responsibilities of leadership.

 

As treasurer, not penny one would go in or out of the accounts without the Scribe at least knowing what's going on.  He may never have to touch each penny, but he can still be responsible for knowing its whereabouts.

[qwazse]

This is sort of why I started the Crew. To allow us a program that can hit the skids if the youth step back.

 

By hitting the skids, I mean we just do a little camping, a service project here and there, whatever I'm interested in at the time and is pretty easy on my wallet. In other words, if you want to act like a patrol that hikes and camps with your mates, fine. If you want to do something bigger, here's who you call.

 

There is no way adults would allow me to do that with the troop. Now that I'm the old guy in the room, I can nudge them away a little. The den moms and dads think I'm a little crazy, but usually a little chocolate and coffee fixes that. The general excuse is the boys are too busy to focus. If they said that to a sports coach they'd get a line like "Well, I guess he can focus on the bench." But somehow, that's an acceptable excuse for not putting in their own hour a week.

[Eagle94-A1]

A few comments.

 

1) Thanks for putting up with my venting and giving ideas. It helps a lot.

 

2) I believe that multiple factors have led to the problem. While some of it is Scout related, i.e. ages, maturity, accepting responsibility, etc, the bulk of it is adult driven.

A) for the longest time it was a one man show, i.e the SM doing it all.  And to keep the troop going, the SM did it all. Can't be done.

 

B) Some of the new leaders are seeing it done the wrong may and are thinking it's right. This is particularly the former Cub Leaders.

 

C) Some leaders, who should know better, instead of using the Boy Scout's Patrol Method model, instead are relying on their military training and are trying to use that instead.

 

D) While training has been done, other aspects have not, i.e. Monthly PLC meetings, post meeting get togethers, etc. communication is haphazard in the form of emails, texts and instant messages.

 

Talked to my friend who will become the next SM, hopefully soon. Lots of good ideas to improve the troop. But will the troop will be ready for the mass influx in december?  Another friend stated that even the smaller projection of 14 new Scouts can kill the troop if we are not ready for them

[Sentinel947]

@Eagle94-A1

 

 

It seems like you've diagnosed a handful of really common problems. Thankfully these are not unique to your troop. Makes battling with them a little easier.

 

How will your troop solve some of them? What are your ideas? 

[blw2]

 

 

@@blw2 have you been listening to Clarke Green's last three podcasts?

yep, well the most recent is in my queue, probably this afternoon on my drive home....

 

What I really would love to do is go in and strongly suggest to all the troop adults that they NEED to listen to this guy, especially this series.... but I understand that that sort of "new-guy" approach just wouldn't work.

[Eagle94-A1]

Good question.  The SM needs to be replaced due to his health. I offered, but the COR/CC stated that they really want a church member to be SM as they view Scouting as an outreach ministry. I'm good with that. My friend is suppose to be the new SM, challenge is how to go about replacing the old SM without any drama or ill will. Let's face it, HE restarted the troop, got it up and running. I've found it's very hard to let something go after putting your heart and soul, as well as your time and treasure, into it for a number of years, and he's been involved with the troop for over 40, except when it folded briefly.

 

My thoughts on improving, and this will be a ramble so bear with me.

 

1) start getting the Scouts to run the meetings more. This comes and goes. I admit under the last SPL, I organized a few meetings for him, basically when he was unavailable, and got youth to teach it. Or if not a youth, then an adult other than the SM. Were the youth instructors perfect, no, but they were better meetings because they did get the Scouts involve.d

 

1A) gotta emphasize more forcefully that he needs an agenda WRITTEN OUT and SHARED (emphasis) with the PLC and the SM. "if it isn't written. it won't happen"

 

1B) And this is where I think I'm balancing on the high wire between advising and mentoring vs. adult leading. I want to incorporate a little more ceremony into inducting new members, COHs, etc. I'm use to having meaningful ceremonies for investing new Scouts with their Scout Badge/rank, and receiving their neckerchief and woggle when they join the troop and commit to staying. I'm also use to a little more ceremony at COHs than " The following Scouts earned their Second Class Badge...."  Also want the youth doing the bulk of the COH instead of the adults, if not the whole thing. ( FYI Troop growing up Scouts handled giving out ranks up to First Class. Star, Life,  MBs and some special awards were given out by the adults.)

 

2) and this one comes from the oldest son, only 1 adult allowed in the room with the Scouts, and they get to pick. THAT'S GOING TO BE A FUN ONE TO IMPLEMENT!  Seriously, this is something oldest suggested to help with the adult problem. Challenge is he doesn't think it should be the current SM as he will jump in too much. In fact he doesn't suggest any of the adult leader except me. Don't know if that's b/c I'm dad or he really means it when he says "you try really hard not to jump in. Sometimes you jump in a little too early. But sometimes you jump in at the right time."

 

What ever the real truth is, I hope he talks to the BOR about this when it's his time.

 

More later.